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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode I, II & III » Will the First Order make the old Imperial regime look weak ?


Will the First Order make the old Imperial regime look weak ?
Started by: quanchi112

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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Merchant
That doesn't make much sense to me. Like, for example the Sun Crusher in the old SW EU used some missile that released some weird thing to make stars to go Supernova, yet when it hit the Death Star prototype, it just dissolved some of it and didn't do any real damage. Could be the same case with the Starkiller base.

Pretty much everything barring exotic technology. And of course God like beings but when I talk about SW vs. ST I usually refer to the Empire vs. Federation.
It makes no sense for it to not be more powerful than the Death Star.

I disagree. The Empire while numerically far greater lack the technology Star Trek would employ. Just look at the weaponry Khan created that the Federation would use. Teleportation is a huge advantage and let's be honest the stormtroopers are about as inept as bad guys can be.

Also with what I've heard a paramount executive talk about we might see the navy seals of the Star Trek universe in Star Trek Beyond so prepare yourself.


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 04:40 AM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I doubt it; the technology of the SK from what we've seen seems decidedly superior to the Death Star.

That being said, using that as evidence for Snoke being more powerful than Palpatine is beyond retarded.
So the new big bad will be less than Palpatine. That makes no sense whatsoever. Here take a look at the new upgrades starkiller base but the guy who runs the first order just doesn't compare to Palpatine. They are going to up the ante.


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 04:42 AM
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The Merchant
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
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If it's a big beam of destructive energy that somehow destroys everything in a star system or it's some sort of bomb that has the output of a Supernova, then sure. However, knowing how much scienfe fiction likes going the chain-reaction route I really doubt it.

Not really. Even going by just the movies we see firepower from light turbolasers from an ISD vaporize asteroids that are 20 meters in diameter, which at the very least require 60 Kilotons of tnt energy. Scaling for the bigger turbolasers we get double digit Megatons of firepower. Transporters get blocked by shields and other electronic interference, which the Empire employs.


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"Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."

Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 04:44 AM
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EmperorSidious2
Master of Magic

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Heavens of Mystic The Birth Place


 

Ummm, I would say no for a few reasons.

1. They don't have Palaptine. Palpatine was the emperor. He was the head of the empire. He was brilliant, manipulative, got the empire what it,needed to push his own agenda and had his power. No one can replicate him IMO.

2. Much smaller in size. Being much smaller in size means they are much smaller in any other way: military, economy, population, etc. So yea they don't have the resources to be on the level of the Empire.

3. Darth Vader- No matter what there most likely won't be a Supreme Commander lie, Vader to help lead the empire.

4. The problems they face. The empire didn't have to worry about trying to build itself up like the First Order does. The Empire had a galaxy already there while the first order is trying to expand from such a disadvantaged positions with less of a military, worse commanders, worse economy and etc.

The one advantage however that The first Order has over the empire is that there is a 30-40 year gap from ROTJ to FA.

So no I don't think they will be as good as the Empire as of now. Do I discount them, no I don't.


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 04:54 AM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
So the new big bad will be less than Palpatine. That makes no sense whatsoever. Here take a look at the new upgrades starkiller base but the guy who runs the first order just doesn't compare to Palpatine. They are going to up the ante.


That's fine, the new generation of Jedi are insignificant compared to the 10,000 heroes of old as well.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 04:56 AM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Merchant
If it's a big beam of destructive energy that somehow destroys everything in a star system or it's some sort of bomb that has the output of a Supernova, then sure. However, knowing how much scienfe fiction likes going the chain-reaction route I really doubt it.

Not really. Even going by just the movies we see firepower from light turbolasers from an ISD vaporize asteroids that are 20 meters in diameter, which at the very least require 60 Kilotons of tnt energy. Scaling for the bigger turbolasers we get double digit Megatons of firepower. Transporters get blocked by shields and other electronic interference, which the Empire employs.
We shall see and I'd put money on the starkiller base to be greater than the Death Star.

We also see dog fighting is something that still works in Wars but in Trek they can bomb the hell out of these ships without impunity. Throw in a progressive universe, black hole like tech, teleportational abilities going up against for the most part a static Star Wars universe and it's a done deal.


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 05:06 AM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's fine, the new generation of Jedi are insignificant compared to the 10,000 heroes of old as well.
The older Jedi order was wiped out quite easily and I doubt the previous era will compare to the new trilogy but we will definitely find out. I have a feeling Palpatine is going to wind up envious of the new big bad. Whether or not that turns out to be Snoke remains to be seen but my money is on a much harsher, more formidable era than the previous one.


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 05:08 AM
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Syndicate
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Registered: Apr 2014
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If they have Thrawn maybe. xD

Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 05:13 AM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Will they make the Galactic Empire look weak? No. Of course not.

As for whether they are better then the GE? I'd guess that's both yes and no. The First Order are obviously not going to have the resources the Empire did. But I expect their troops were generally be better trained and better equipped. And Starkiller Base has far more fire power than either of the Death Stars.


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 07:20 AM
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The Merchant
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Registered: Sep 2012
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Like I said, if the Starkiller Base does end up using pure power to blow up star systems then yeah, it's totally stronger than the Death Star. If it uses something like the Sun Crushers torps, then no. It's more destructive, not necessarily more powerful.

Why is dog fighting an indicator that they're not more tech advanced? Unless you're implying that they're using their actual eyesight to see the fighters, when that's not the case. We see them use those small computers to target enemy ships and blast them. Not to mention we see X wings literally fly all the way to the Death Star in mere minutes, the distance between the DS and Yavin IV had to be nearly millions of Kilometers considering in between them was a gas giant, and there's no indication the fighters slowed down either, they said they accelerated to attack speed.

Wasn't red matter an incredibly rare substance that was only useful if they dropped it in the core of a planet? I also know they made one in space but I don't remember how, didn't the ship that had all of the red matter blow up and that was essentially all of it? Not to mention the ships could just use hyperspace and leave. Transporters get blocked by a myriad of things, from dense materials to shields to electrical interference, which ISDS have all three.


__________________
"Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."

Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 09:58 AM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Merchant
Like I said, if the Starkiller Base does end up using pure power to blow up star systems then yeah, it's totally stronger than the Death Star. If it uses something like the Sun Crushers torps, then no. It's more destructive, not necessarily more powerful.

Why is dog fighting an indicator that they're not more tech advanced? Unless you're implying that they're using their actual eyesight to see the fighters, when that's not the case. We see them use those small computers to target enemy ships and blast them. Not to mention we see X wings literally fly all the way to the Death Star in mere minutes, the distance between the DS and Yavin IV had to be nearly millions of Kilometers considering in between them was a gas giant, and there's no indication the fighters slowed down either, they said they accelerated to attack speed.

Wasn't red matter an incredibly rare substance that was only useful if they dropped it in the core of a planet? I also know they made one in space but I don't remember how, didn't the ship that had all of the red matter blow up and that was essentially all of it? Not to mention the ships could just use hyperspace and leave. Transporters get blocked by a myriad of things, from dense materials to shields to electrical interference, which ISDS have all three.
If it causes the chain reaction to decimate far more than a planet yes it definitely is.

They can use their targeting system but their tech hasn't been able to fire away from the distances farther away than what we see from the Star Wars ships.

It was useful in stopping a supernova and in destroying the Narada. We see how much red matter they had and they only needed a drop or so. How many Death Stars do they have; two ??

Trek can teleport and they have warp speed and three times warp speed. The scary thing is they haven't fully militarized and we still see what they'd be capable of with Khan's help. Star Wars would rue the day they crossed Khan.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 03:23 PM
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Emperordmb
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Registered: Mar 2014
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Khan would get on a video chat with Sheev demanding his surrender, and Sheev would choke the life out of him from across the Galaxy. GG


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 03:31 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Khan would get on a video chat with Sheev demanding his surrender, and Sheev would choke the life out of him from across the Galaxy. GG
Khan would teleport right behind him and crush his skull. Palpatine would be in awe of their tech and beg while he heard his own skull break.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 03:37 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Khan would get on a video chat with Sheev demanding his surrender, and Sheev would choke the life out of him from across the Galaxy. GG



Oh 100%. Either Vader or Sheev would choke Khan over video chat.

And it's in character for Khan to Skype before he starts firing as well, as proven in Into Darkness.

Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 04:35 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh 100%. Either Vader or Sheev would choke Khan over video chat.

And it's in character for Khan to Skype before he starts firing as well, as proven in Into Darkness.
He'd start firing as soon as that occurred but he'd never have to chat because they'd have nothing he needed. They don't have his men in their torpedoes. Common sense.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 04:38 PM
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Rebel95
Senior Member

Registered: Mar 2008
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I think the new starkiller base will be superior to the death star. As to whether snoke will be superior to palpatine, I'm not sure.

Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 05:10 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rebel95
I think the new starkiller base will be superior to the death star. As to whether snoke will be superior to palpatine, I'm not sure.
It makes no sense for thirty years in the future to have a base less powerful to the previous one. If Snoke is the new big bad for the trilogy he should be IMO.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 05:37 PM
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Lord Stark
Lord of Winterfell

Registered: Jan 2007
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What's all this about Finn not being Force Sensitive? Can someone explain please.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 06:54 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Simple. We dont know if he is force sensitive.

What we do "know" (massive spoilers BTW) is that [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Rey not Finn is the one who ends up training with Luke at the end of the film.


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 07:04 PM
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FreshestSlice
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That's because [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Finn gets his ass kicked, and Rey goes to meet Luke alone. Probably for maximum Father-Daughter angst.

Old Post Nov 30th, 2015 07:13 PM
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