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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode I, II & III » Republic, Resistance, First Order- what's actually going on?


Republic, Resistance, First Order- what's actually going on?
Started by: Ushgarak

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Ushgarak
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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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Republic, Resistance, First Order- what's actually going on?

I have seen it commented- and I do agree- that the PT has made the new films so politics-averse that they have actually excised too much background detail with the new film. I suspect they will have more to say later here, but here's a thread to discuss the central political issue.

We have a Republic, which we can assume is fairly much in line with the Old Republic (though whether it is still the same size or if the old Confederate systems have all gone their own way, we have no idea).

We have the First Order, apparently able to come to power in the absence of Luke Skywalker. They seem pretty well tooled up, and Starkiller Base seems a super-engineering achievement, but we didn't see much in the way of a fleet. We know they have planets to take and train their stormtroopers from, so they can't be a tin deal, but we've no idea how big they are.

Then we have the Resistance, which is being backed by the Republic to fight the First Order. This is the bit that really needed just a tad of exposition. Now, structurally, we know the Resistance exists so that they can copy the structure of ANH, Rebels vs Empire, and that's fine (up to a point), but some firm base as to how things have ended up this way is nice. It all comes down to one big question:

Why isn't the Republic just fighting the First Order? There's plenty of reasons why this might be- for a start, being a bunch of sovereign democracies, they might just be sick of constant war. Funding a volunteer force like the Resistance works out ok.

I think we can be pretty certain that the First Order hasn't actually attacked the Republic yet, else the whole idea of the Resistance would be silly. We can say right now that they don't agree how evil/threatening the First Order actually is- but in that case, the fact that the First Order just tried to blow the Republic out of the galaxy kinda messes that one up... might it be full war next episode? Is the First Order big enough to fight such a war?

I don't mind not knowing much about character backgrounds- that's good mystery- but some of the gaps in the story setup here make me feel like I missed a page in a book.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2015 06:28 PM
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Bashar Teg
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one observation: snoke didn't seem too pissed off about losing the starkiller base and that part of his arsenal. he seemed to just shrug it off like "oh well". very uncharacteristic of a dark lord, especially after losing something of great power/importance. i think there's a lot of significance to that.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2015 06:34 PM
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Ushgarak
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Yeah, I was amused by his "Oh well, sod it anyway- just make sure you get Kylo out of there" attitude.

I suspect a lot of people told him that superweapons NEVER work and he's just trying to cover the embarrassment.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2015 06:41 PM
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Bashar Teg
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or perhaps it had already accomplished it's main objective in the first attack on the republic. my suspicion is that the troops/ships we saw in ep7 was just a tiny fraction of snoke's arsenal, thus his casual attitude over some spilled milk.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2015 06:44 PM
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queeq
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Re: Republic, Resistance, First Order- what's actually going on?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak

Then we have the Resistance, which is being backed by the Republic to fight the First Order. This is the bit that really needed just a tad of exposition. Now, structurally, we know the Resistance exists so that they can copy the structure of ANH, Rebels vs Empire, and that's fine (up to a point), but some firm base as to how things have ended up this way is nice. It all comes down to one big question:

Why isn't the Republic just fighting the First Order?


Yeah, this is the puzzling bit. I would say that the Resistance is basically the Republic's army, right? They even refer to the fact that not being backed up by the Fleet makes them weaker. So if they are with the Republic, who are they resisting? Wouldn't it be First Order that is the real resistance against the powers that be i.e. the Republic?

The First Order seems to me like a well organised insurgence... or, dare I say say it, separatists?


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2015 08:10 PM
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Bardock42
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The Old Republic seemed a bit iffy about armies generally and how to handle them. Perhaps the Resistance, born out of the Rebellion, is their current "not really an army but we do kinda need one" deal.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2015 11:33 PM
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|King Joker|
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A small, secretive private military force, the Resistance was founded by rebel hero Leia Organa to monitor the actions of the First Order. Most New Republic power brokers tolerate the Resistance while regarding Organa and her fighters as dead-enders with an unfortunate fixation on the past. Organa’s cash-strapped movement relies on credits, ships and equipment quietly funneled to it from the few senators who share her concerns. - The Resistance SW.com Databank

After the Battle of Endor, the New Republic reached an uneasy peace with the remnants of the Galactic Empire. Believing the Empire was no longer a threat, the New Republic reduced its military capabilities, despite Leia’s warning that the Imperial remnants could not be trusted. When her concerns were dismissed as paranoid warmongering, Leia formed the Resistance, a secret military force that keeps watch on the restive First Order. - Leia Organa SW.com Databank


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2015 11:48 PM
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peluffo
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I would speculate on that precisely. The Republic is not entirely against the First Order, and maybe almost sees it like an army capable to help the Republic eventually, and the Resistance is, well, the resistance to let the remnants of the old empire take over the republic with its military power.

But the SW.com databank really give light on that matter.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2015 01:06 AM
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JediRobin23
Somewhat Liberal

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Canada


 

Interesting topic. My gut is telling me it's a replica of anh and just changed the names of things such as resistance (instead of rebellion), light (instead of good), new order (instead of empire). It really goes back to the ep 1-6 story. Story of anakin. For a new Star Wars to exist, it's a must to change the names while rhyme with the old, so to speak.

After the destruction of the empire, there was celebration. 30 years later, problems still exist in the galaxy that the first order was able to go on to build the star killer base that destroys multiple planets at once....

If Lucas wrote this story, he would probably make it clear that history repeats itself, and light vs dark always exists....

Old Post Dec 24th, 2015 07:40 AM
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queeq
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Still sounds weird, because the Republic has/had a fleet. Weird way of reducing your military. Is this the incomprehensible ghost of George Lucas still doing his little charm in the background? wink


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2015 11:57 AM
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Darth Thor
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Re: Re: Republic, Resistance, First Order- what's actually going on?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
So if they are with the Republic, who are they resisting? Wouldn't it be First Order that is the real resistance against the powers that be i.e. the Republic?




Exactly. The name "Resistance" makes no sense. It's a big hole in the film for me personally.

And I know King Joker keeps quoting the official site, but the movie should have explained it properly. And even with that, I still see it as a long round about way to imitate the ANH positioning of the good and bad guys like Ush said.

Old Post Dec 24th, 2015 12:06 PM
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Ushgarak
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I suppose 'resistance' implies that a lot of the manpower comes from worlds under First Order control- but 'implies' is all we have to go on.

I was amused by Ackbar being there. "I don't actually have a fleet here, so I'm a bit pointless really..."


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2015 12:37 PM
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queeq
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laughing out loud


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2015 04:05 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
one observation: snoke didn't seem too pissed off about losing the starkiller base and that part of his arsenal. he seemed to just shrug it off like "oh well". very uncharacteristic of a dark lord, especially after losing something of great power/importance. i think there's a lot of significance to that.
I thought the exact same thing. thumb up

Made me think that the First Order either has far more uber tech at their disposal, or they have more Starkiller Bases throughout the galaxy.


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2015 04:46 PM
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|King Joker|
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
I thought the exact same thing. thumb up

Made me think that the First Order either has far more uber tech at their disposal, or they have more Starkiller Bases throughout the galaxy.
please no


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Old Post Dec 25th, 2015 09:48 AM
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Darth Thor
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Leave a 2nd Starkiller base until Episode 9 when the plot will be to rescue Finn from a renowned Gangster and ending with Rey going on board Starkiller2 to redeem Kylo and destroy Snoke, while the Resistance attack Stakiller2 for 1 final battle against the First Order. wink

Old Post Dec 25th, 2015 10:22 AM
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dadudemon
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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bacta Tank.


 

It has been pointed out, already, but The Republic is funding The Resistance with clandestine money. Kind of likehow Saudi Arabia is funding terrorism. Except The Resistance are not terrorists.

Someone may have already said it in this thread. They may be better described as a Mercenary navy (can't call it an army, really)? They are getting funded so they can't be called volunteers. Maybe people are joining The Resistance of their own volition but it is not a volunteer military if it is getting funded.



The exacts of how The Empire become The First Order is still not clear.


I agree with Ushgarak. Perhaps the PT had too much politics for most people. But swinging the pendulum the exact opposite direction is not a good way to go about world building in the new trilogy. I agree with an argument I had with Queeq a long time ago: the OT had a nice balance of politics and exposition. Even as a child, I could understand the political dynamics in the OT. It was simple and straightforward. Nothing was confusing. I mean, how the Emperor rose to power was not made apparent but that wasn't important to the plot (it was for the PT).


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Last edited by dadudemon on Dec 25th, 2015 at 12:56 PM

Old Post Dec 25th, 2015 12:54 PM
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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
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Because the politics of the OT was pretty straightforward. So they tried to emulate that same structure in TFA without any explanation as to what has happened to return back to that exact same state after the way ROTJ ended.

The OT didn't require that explanation. But TFA being a sequel did.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2015 06:28 PM
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Ushgarak
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ANH was also more naturally connected- the plans they were looking for wwere for the Death Star, and everything leads to the Death Star.

Here, the plans they were looking for were for Luke- fine. But then, suddenly, the bad guys ALSO have a Death Star equivalent that needs to be dealt with. That's now two stories pulling at each other. That's always going to be more complex and some more context would be nice.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Last edited by Ushgarak on Dec 25th, 2015 at 08:46 PM

Old Post Dec 25th, 2015 08:34 PM
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Darth Thor
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^ Yeah The first half of the movie I was really enjoying. Then they lost me with the Starkiller base. Should have stuck with the searching for Luke story IMO.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2015 10:23 PM
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