Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
I think the problem is the overwhelming focus on the beauty of female actors, that's just not in any way similar with make actors. I don't have a problem with the lists in general, but they add to a pile of expectations and judgments of attractiveness that women face.
Though really I only offered up my opinion why I think it is problematic because riv did sort of hint at the controversies around this kind of thing when he said "I don't see why not".
Yeah, "Best Boobs" is particularly crass and disrespectful, and it's a mile away from just "Being Hot". The focusing on that one particular aspect shows how small-minded the author of that piece is, but commenting on how attractive they are overall is nowhere near that level of idiocy. There are plenty of lists of hot men, too; is that sexist? It's certainly objectification, and whilst I don't want to veer into "men are victims of sexism too" shit (which overlooks the point of feminism – equality, not trying to prove victimhood), the truth is, both men and women are objectified by their looks, and whilst the crass "Best Boobs" thing is abhorrent, it is certainly a different level of sexism to just pointing out that there are attractive women who act.
Generally, male actors who don't conform to standard definitions of attractiveness rarely get to the heights and achieve the massive success than those that are considered highly attractive. Compare Clooney to Buscemi. Compare Brad Pitt to Gary Busey. Busey is an Academy Award-nominated actor with a wide repertoire that is known, basically, for being "that crazy, weird-looking guy". The film industry is massively cosmetic. And yes, there has always been a high level of obsession with the idea of the Screen Beauty, but the problem exists for both genders. If anything, racism is worse than sexism in the film industry. An actor of Middle Eastern descent will find it hard to find roles other than "terrorist bad guy" or basically just an updated version of the Mystical Negroe. We need to challenge inequality in all of its forms, individually (so yes, female inequality does need to be directly addressed), and the issue of image and beauty, particularly in the world of film and television, is so multifaceted it seems lazy to say that gender inequality is the main (or even only) thing that it affects.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
I think with men the "objectification" is at a relatively acceptable level (it could be better of course, but generally men aren't reduced to their looks in the same way women are). If that was the same for women this would not be an issue imo, however the treatment of men and women is crassly different.
And can you give me the Buscemi and Busey version of female actors?
You make good points about racism in Hollywood as well of course (and perhaps general stereotyping), I do not deny that, and I think it isn't forgotten just because sexism is also pointed out. Women just have much less range that they are allowed in acting (though that has gotten somewhat better).
I agree, it is still a problem for a very great deal of women, but it depends on the field of work, particularly in the arts. Female stand-up comedians are having somewhat of a renaissance in the US at the moment, and they aren't tied to beauty standards by any means. But overall, I do agree that the gender imbalance is still a big issue that has to be faced head-on, and that yes, women overall are still judged far more for their looks as well as being held to much higher standards than men, and that in acting, the choice of roles is far more limited than it is for men. There are loads of supporting characters that are inevitably male that would translate well being portrayed by women, instead.
But as for 'female counterparts' for Buscemi and Busey, I can't at the moment think of direct links, but I'll put forward Christina Ricci and Laura Dern. They are both successful, but one can't help wondering that a perceived lack of perfection by studio execs or others has held them back somewhat — I consider them both highly talented actors, and in particular Laura Dern has a way of portraying emotion that I find incredibly compelling. But aside from the occasional starring role in a large film (Jurassic Park), she's mostly consigned to cult film fame. Ricci is often pigeonholed performing unstable or vulnerable characters. In a more positive example, Melissa McCarthy is a huge star: whilst I'm not a massive fan of her comedy stylings, she has a genuine ability to entertain audiences, usually without having to draw direct attention to her 'chubby loudmouth' persona. The persona puts the jokes across without having to make those jokes about itself.
Things have definitely got a lot better in the past decade, imo. There is progress being made, and whilst it's far from perfect yet, women are generally being seen more and more for their talent and not just their looks. And whilst looks are still a huge selling point, I don't believe Charlize Theron would be nearly as highly regarded if it weren't for her genuine talent and her impressive range. Yes, her beauty has certainly helped, but ultimately it's her abilities that have taken her where she is (and seriously, if you haven't seen Monster yet, do so, it's great).
I think there is a lot of progress being made in Hollywood really, and more and more roles are being opened up to a wider, more diverse range of actors. I guess we'll just have to see where it goes, ultimately. And I totally agree that challenging sexism directly does not come at the cost of challenging other forms of discrimination.
Anyway, I need to sleep, good talking with you.
Good thread, man — didn't realise it'd generate this much discussion!
KMC Community Forums
Jan 10th, 2016 11:04 PM
