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the trouble with superman
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

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Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

the trouble with superman

an excellent article imo, from the atlantic. lengthy, but worth the read i think. give it a read through and let's discuss a bit. i'd love to hear how YOU'D fix superman. especially from some of the people who don't really like the character.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...uperman/435408/


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Last edited by leonidas on Feb 7th, 2016 at 08:27 PM

Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 08:23 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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There's no fixing him. Period.

He works well in his team-ups with Batman, though.

Like here.


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Last edited by StiltmanFTW on Feb 7th, 2016 at 09:02 PM

Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 08:59 PM
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Surtur
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He doesn't need to be fixed, just needs someone who knows how to write him. When we have this we get great stories. When we don't we get shit.

DC also needs to cool its Batman boner. Dude doesn't belong in a movie with Superman, but they did it anyways. They put Ben Afleck in a f*cking Batsuit and expected us to take it seriously. For all the praise people want to heap on the character of Batman..the character has also gone through huge slumps as well, and a string of horrid films.

You will also have people whine Superman is too powerful, but these people don't blink when Batman does shit he shouldn't be capable of doing.


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Last edited by Surtur on Feb 7th, 2016 at 09:04 PM

Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 09:01 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Dude doesn't belong in a movie with Superman, but they did it anyways.


You're wrong here.

Batman/Superman comics are easily among the best stories DC has ever made.

Of course a movie needed to be made. But can WB do it right? We'll see soon...


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Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 09:11 PM
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Galan007
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Like him or not, it's hard to deny that Superman is a great character as is. He simply wouldn't have lasted this long(and still be as popular as he is) if he weren't.

Writer consistency is the only area I would improve, but that 'gripe' certainly isn't exclusive to Supes. Heck, I'd have Morrison, Rucka, or even Pak(I still feel uneasy saying that, lol) write every single Superman title if I could, because I feel like they actually have a firm grasp of the character... But we don't live in a perfect world. stick out tongue


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Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 7th, 2016 at 09:25 PM

Old Post Feb 7th, 2016 09:17 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're wrong here.

Batman/Superman comics are easily among the best stories DC has ever made.

Of course a movie needed to be made. But can WB do it right? We'll see soon...


That is the problem, the way people view both characters, it can't be done right. Those Superman/Batman stories were done by people who knew something about the characters beyond their biographies.


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Old Post Feb 10th, 2016 09:02 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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There's no such thing as "can't".

Look at MCU. Pefect example.


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Old Post Feb 10th, 2016 09:06 PM
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Surtur
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I'm just worried this movie will turn into one big dick measuring contest.


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Old Post Feb 10th, 2016 09:32 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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Tell me... do you measure dicks? YOU WILL.


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Old Post Feb 10th, 2016 09:46 PM
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Bentley
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Make Superman fun. Make comics fun. Stop trying to be edgy and overrealistic everywhere, allow yourself to be silly, impossible and take risks.

This is not exclusive to Superman! People who are enjoying themselves don't care as much about power levels and continuity, realism nor detail.


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Old Post Feb 11th, 2016 06:21 AM
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SamZED
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Tell me... do you measure dicks? YOU WILL.
laughing I thought this movie is going to be PG13.


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Old Post Feb 12th, 2016 02:13 PM
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Re: the trouble with superman

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
an excellent article imo, from the atlantic. lengthy, but worth the read i think. give it a read through and let's discuss a bit. i'd love to hear how YOU'D fix superman. especially from some of the people who don't really like the character.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...uperman/435408/
How Grant Morrison writes young Superman? Write him like that. [Action Comics #1-16]
How Grant Morrison writes transitioning Superman? Write him like that. [JLA]
How Grant Morrison writes fully formed Superman? Write him like that. [Superman Beyond/Final Crisis]

It really is that simple.
They should dissect those runs, and go with it.


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Old Post Feb 12th, 2016 04:31 PM
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leonidas
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i largely agree with what has been said here. i don't think he needs fixing as much as he needs a constant direction. there is the issue with consistency that all characters face, but in superman's case it seems there has been a larger degree of inconsistency. i think in large part it's because it's really tough to reconcile the historic character with modern readership and culture. so in part they have been forced to change him. i just don't think dc has constantly found a way TO change him that resonates with everyone--as the dip in his sales would attest....

it's tricky. his historic, good ole farmboy nature really doesn't fly anymore. but when that is who he is, i can see where trying to change it, or rather make it more amenable to the modern world and its views, can be a challenge, dc has HAD to adjust its characters a lot more than marvel has imo. and i still don't think they have it consistently right with characters like marvel and wonder woman.

don't get me wrong--if i had to choose only one company to survive, marvel or dc, it would likely be dc. still, a strong definitive direction would be nice. maybe rebirth will allow for something more consistent.....


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2016 11:24 PM
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Q99
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The big 'fix' is "stop trying to write him as an angsty outsider."

He's not Batman, do not try and make him Batman. His main aspects are different, and spending your effort trying to 'bring him down to Earth' is just avoiding what makes him great.


Oh yea, and it'd also help if he won more via creative use of powers rather than raw force. Creativity helps.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2016 12:40 AM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

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i agree, again. but i wonder--what if trying to stick to his roots is part of the problem? is superman 'too corny' to work well in today's society? is dc right in trying for a more 'modernized' version of the character? and how much 'modernizing' is too much? legit questions about which i'm curious.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2016 01:04 AM
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Q99
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
i agree, again. but i wonder--what if trying to stick to his roots is part of the problem?


If it is, we wouldn't know, because people insist on trying anything but, or even trying to make him Jesus instead of Superman (sacrifice is not what makes Superman great!).

quote:
is superman 'too corny' to work well in today's society?


My Little Pony and Steven Universe are incredibly popular.


quote:
is dc right in trying for a more 'modernized' version of the character?


Well, it hasn't worked so far... and the parts they insist on modernizing seem largely moving away from his core, and I don't think being hopeful and fun actually has to do with time.

Like, I think Morrison's modernizing, showing him being young, socially active and wear jeans, can work just fine with the core of the character. Whereas, "I fail constantly and angst about being an outsider," just isn't Superman, he's totally not an outsider.

Like a character said when asked about Superman being an alien many years ago, "he's an American." He's of Earth. He is *totally* a normal guy. A good, normal guy. That's what makes him Superman.

quote:

and how much 'modernizing' is too much? legit questions about which i'm curious.


Good question. Apparently the amount that DC does isn't it, judging by the results and DC trying similar reinventions often to mixed results (They aren't all bad stories by any means, but they haven't hit the parts needed to be popular, or name as his core).

Also I do not think it's a question of amount so much as type.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2016 01:43 AM
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StiltmanFTW
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The S symbol actually = Shit.

Shitman from Krypton. There's no hope.


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Old Post Apr 1st, 2016 10:49 PM
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Digi
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I always kind of enjoyed when they took their characters a mythic direction. More "Kingdom Come," less gritty modern reboot. Superman and Batman have never felt more human to me than in KC, because it's so easy to create the dichotomy between their outward image, their persona, the zeitgeist of them, so to speak, against their inner struggles. Superman is a broken man in KC, but he's also very clearly a god.

Marvel does kinda have a corner on the market on relatable heroes, at least in their movie-verse. Cap 2 got away with being an overt allegory on civil liberties. DC should go the opposite direction, imo. Forget being topical. Be timeless.


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Old Post Apr 2nd, 2016 02:27 AM
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Superman's biggest problem is always going to be writers that just don't get the character, and editors who try to micro-manage shit. I've never been shy about saying that the Morrison version is now how I would personally want it, but he writes the character well enough that I can't really complain.

DC needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and to just let people who know their shit write the character.


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Old Post Apr 2nd, 2016 02:46 AM
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The problem is Superman is better then all the writers. A mortal writer can never live up to a fictional god that has transcended fiction and become a actual Icon in the real world.


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Old Post Apr 2nd, 2016 02:58 AM
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