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Interneton
Member
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If Goku and Vegeta went Super Saiyan 4 in Dragon Ball Super
How powerful would they be compared to their Super Saiyan Blue forms?
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Mar 10th, 2016 07:14 PM |
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Ridley_Prime
Smug icon slayer
 Gender: Male
Location: Abandoned station |
Definitely not as powerful IMO. Before Super, SSJ4 might have been considered on par with super saiyan red, but blue? Nah.
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Mar 10th, 2016 08:25 PM |
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NewGuy01
perpetual
 Gender: Male
Location: USA |
Ever since they obtained godly ki, Goku's and Vegeta's entire SSJ system changed, so it's hard to say.
If you're talking about before they achieved that, then no; SSJ4 is a powerful transformation, but they were much weaker at the start of Super than they were in GT.
SSJ4's with GT power levels would probably fare pretty well even without GK, like Golden Frieza did.
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Mar 17th, 2016 11:01 PM |
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Flower23
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: 1212 PARMER drive |
SSJ4 GT Goku would one shot any God from Super. In DBS, Beerus stated he used 10% of his power on enraged SSJ2 Vegeta. I think Beerus was using 10% the whole time but only NEEDED it against Vegeta, as opposed to Goku where it was a complete stomp. I would put enraged SSJ2 Vegeta at 3/4 of Beerus's 10%, while SSJ3 Goku would be at 1/4 of Beerus's 10%. Akira stated Beerus would be a 10 and God Goku would be a 6, meaning God Goku would be equal to Beerus at 60%. So for Goku to go from 2.5% of Beerus's full power to 60% he would need a multiplier of 24x SSJ3. That means that MSSJ GT Goku is stronger than God Goku. Now as for proof Vegeta couldn't of gotten a giant multiplier is the fact that he had a similar rage boost against Cell. Most likely even bigger since he was more enraged. And he still didn't have enough power to kill Cell. And Cell wasn't even 100x stronger than Vegeta at that time. So his rage boost couldn't of been that big. As for Beerus flicking Goku and Vegeta, Beerus uses pressure points to do that. Some people say he lied to Vegeta about using 10%, but why would he? Out of respect? No. It only makes Beerus look bad by having to use that much. He even said he was using 100 percent on God Goku by the end. As for SSGSS. When Goku and Vegeta went to train in the HBTC, Vegeta stated that they are probably reaching their limit, and they can't go that much further. This implies they didn't get that much stronger and are still weaker than Beerus. And keep in mind SSGSS isn't more powerful than normal God Form. SSGSS is just a mastered God Form that doesn't waste ki. Kaioken x10 SSGSS Goku would be much stronger than Beerus however. However Akira said he doesn't plan to have Goku surpass Beerus yet. I think that means in terms of a fight because Kaioken would not last forever. And Beerus could outlast it with his fighting skill. So overall the Kaioken x10 Goku doesn't even put him at SSJ3 GT Goku level.SSJ4 GT Goku Baby Saga would be around MSSJ Vegito Buu Saga. Also keep in mind it never specifically stated BASE Vegito. So what multiplier would SSJ4 Goku need to be around MSSJ Vegito? We will be using the 7x multiplier for SSJ2 since 2x could not of been possible considering Teen Gohan was getting stomped by Cell and went to instantly tanking his blows and stomping him. However it wouldn't matter anyway. 2x or 7x wouldn't change anything I'm about to say. Let's say in the Buu Saga Goku and Vegeta's base power is 500,000,000 (being generous to Vegeta) which would put them slightly above android 17 and 18 by my calculations. Regardless, their base power doesn't really matter right now. But if it was that, that means Vegito's power level in base would be 250,000,000,000,000,000 using the PLxPL multiplier stated by Akira. MSSJ Vegito would be 12,500,000,000,000,000,000 . Base Goku at the beginning of GT is equal to SSJ3 Goku from the Buu Saga, so GT Goku's SSJ3 by the Baby Saga would be 980,000,000,000,000. So what would SSJ4 Goku's multiplier need be to make him equal to MSSJ Vegito? 980,000,000,000,000 x 12,000=11,520,000,000,000,000,000. So Baby Saga Goku Pre Zenkai in SSJ4 would have to be around 12,000x SSJ3 to be anywhere near MSSJ Vegito. And for those of you who say "Well Goku said fusion wouldn't work on Beerus!" that's wrong. Goku can't sense Beerus since he has God Ki and based it souly on the beating he got. It was a complete assumption. And no, Goku couldn't of based it off how powerful Beerus's blows were since Vegito and Beerus both would have to hold back to not insta kill SSJ3 Goku. Not only that, but Beerus used pressure point attacks only. SoBeerus. So I'm just going to give SSGSS Goku a small PL boost from God Goku and multiply it x10.
700,000,000,000 SSJ3 Goku Buu Saga's/GT Goku's Base PL
33,600,000,000,000 God Goku's (Super) PL (2X Buu Saga and not counting Namek Saga statement)
35,000,000,000,000 MSSJ GT Goku's (Baby Saga) PL
40,000,000,000,000 SSGSS Goku's (Super) PL
245,000,000,000,000 SSJ2 GT Goku's (Baby Saga) PL
400,000,000,000,000 Kaioken x10 SSGSS Goku's (Super) PL
960,000,000,000,000 SSJ3 GT Goku's (Baby Saga) PL
250,000,000,000,000,000 Base Vegito's (Buu Saga) PL
11,520,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ4 GT Goku's (Baby Saga) PL
12,500,000,000,000,000,000 MSSJ Vegito's (Buu Saga) PL
57,600,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ4 GT Goku's Zenkai (Baby Saga) PL
87,500,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ2 Vegito's (Buu Saga) PL
350,000,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ3 Vegito's (Buu Saga) PL
4,200,000,000,000,000,000,000 God Vegito's (Super) PL (2X Buu Saga and not counting Namek Saga statement)
5,681,280,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ4 GT Goku (Hell Saga) PL
28,406,400,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ4 GT Goku (Shadow Dragon Saga) PL
I used a 5x zenkai for Baby Saga Goku and Shadow Dragon Saga Goku. I did this based on the beatings he got and the gap in his previous powers. And if you look at the official power levels for Namek Saga, most zenkais are around 4x to 5x the person's previous power. As for why SSJ4 Hell Saga Goku got such a big leap it's because Majuub was on par with Baby which one shotted SSJ3 GT Goku making Majuub about 4x as strong as SSJ3 Goku, because I think he was a TINY bit weaker than Baby. Now in the Hell Saga, Majuub couldn't even hurt Super 17 while MSSJ GT Goku was wrecking him. So I would put Super 17 at about 5x Majuub's strength and MSSJ Goku at 7x Majuub's strength. I don't think MSSJ Goku was twice as strong as Super 17 since he was landing some good hits at the end before he absorbed Goku's ki. I think Goku got so strong because the SSJ4 transformation boosted his base power.
SSJ4 GT Goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DB Super
As a quick little bonus, let's do a quick SSJ4 Gogeta vs a hypothetical Kaioken x10 SSGSS Vegito. Let's just start with normal Gogeta vs Vegito. I say they're equal and here is why. In Dragon Ball: Super Exciting Guide, it said potara is plxpl and Akira said the dance is pl+plx7. Now, here's the thing. I think Rival Boost is what makes it plxpl because when Kibito and Supreme Kai fuse, they should've easily handled Buu. The thing is they weren't rivals, so their multiplier was probably pl+plx7. So I think Vegito is only plxpl due to the rival boost. Now onto Gogeta... I think Gogeta has rival boost counting M12 and GT and here's why. Going off the pl+plx7 multiplier, MSSJ Gogeta would be around SSJ3 Goku's level, yet he one shotted Janemba. As for GT, Vegeta SSJ4 was as strong as SSJ4 Goku from the Baby Saga at best. Goku in the SD saga got tons of zenkais making him far above his Baby Saga self. So since he was beaten by Omega, his power was weak enough to fuse with Vegeta. I don't think 2 Baby Saga level Goku's added together and x7'd would've put Gogeta anywhere near Omega, let alone blink him across a city. This is implying Gogeta is also plxpl. This would make SSJ4 Gogeta a HIGH multiverse buster. Obviously he one shots everyone from Super by blinking including Kaioken x10 SSGSS Vegito.
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May 5th, 2017 02:46 AM |
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Flower23
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: 1212 PARMER drive |
SSJ4 GT Goku would one shot any God from Super. In DBS, Beerus stated he used 10% of his power on enraged SSJ2 Vegeta. I think Beerus was using 10% the whole time but only NEEDED it against Vegeta, as opposed to Goku where it was a complete stomp. I would put enraged SSJ2 Vegeta at 3/4 of Beerus's 10%, while SSJ3 Goku would be at 1/4 of Beerus's 10%. Akira stated Beerus would be a 10 and God Goku would be a 6, meaning God Goku would be equal to Beerus at 60%. So for Goku to go from 2.5% of Beerus's full power to 60% he would need a multiplier of 24x SSJ3. That means that MSSJ GT Goku is stronger than God Goku. Now as for proof Vegeta couldn't of gotten a giant multiplier is the fact that he had a similar rage boost against Cell. Most likely even bigger since he was more enraged. And he still didn't have enough power to kill Cell. And Cell wasn't even 100x stronger than Vegeta at that time. So his rage boost couldn't of been that big. As for Beerus flicking Goku and Vegeta, Beerus uses pressure points to do that. Some people say he lied to Vegeta about using 10%, but why would he? Out of respect? No. It only makes Beerus look bad by having to use that much. He even said he was using 100 percent on God Goku by the end. As for SSGSS. When Goku and Vegeta went to train in the HBTC, Vegeta stated that they are probably reaching their limit, and they can't go that much further. This implies they didn't get that much stronger and are still weaker than Beerus. And keep in mind SSGSS isn't more powerful than normal God Form. SSGSS is just a mastered God Form that doesn't waste ki. Kaioken x10 SSGSS Goku would be much stronger than Beerus however. However Akira said he doesn't plan to have Goku surpass Beerus yet. I think that means in terms of a fight because Kaioken would not last forever. And Beerus could outlast it with his fighting skill. So overall the Kaioken x10 Goku doesn't even put him at SSJ3 GT Goku level.SSJ4 GT Goku Baby Saga would be around MSSJ Vegito Buu Saga. Also keep in mind it never specifically stated BASE Vegito. So what multiplier would SSJ4 Goku need to be around MSSJ Vegito? We will be using the 7x multiplier for SSJ2 since 2x could not of been possible considering Teen Gohan was getting stomped by Cell and went to instantly tanking his blows and stomping him. However it wouldn't matter anyway. 2x or 7x wouldn't change anything I'm about to say. Let's say in the Buu Saga Goku and Vegeta's base power is 500,000,000 (being generous to Vegeta) which would put them slightly above android 17 and 18 by my calculations. Regardless, their base power doesn't really matter right now. But if it was that, that means Vegito's power level in base would be 250,000,000,000,000,000 using the PLxPL multiplier stated by Akira. MSSJ Vegito would be 12,500,000,000,000,000,000 . Base Goku at the beginning of GT is equal to SSJ3 Goku from the Buu Saga, so GT Goku's SSJ3 by the Baby Saga would be 980,000,000,000,000. So what would SSJ4 Goku's multiplier need be to make him equal to MSSJ Vegito? 980,000,000,000,000 x 12,000=11,520,000,000,000,000,000. So Baby Saga Goku Pre Zenkai in SSJ4 would have to be around 12,000x SSJ3 to be anywhere near MSSJ Vegito. And for those of you who say "Well Goku said fusion wouldn't work on Beerus!" that's wrong. Goku can't sense Beerus since he has God Ki and based it souly on the beating he got. It was a complete assumption. And no, Goku couldn't of based it off how powerful Beerus's blows were since Vegito and Beerus both would have to hold back to not insta kill SSJ3 Goku. Not only that, but Beerus used pressure point attacks only. SoBeerus. So I'm just going to give SSGSS Goku a small PL boost from God Goku and multiply it x10.
700,000,000,000 SSJ3 Goku Buu Saga's/GT Goku's Base PL
33,600,000,000,000 God Goku's (Super) PL (2X Buu Saga and not counting Namek Saga statement)
35,000,000,000,000 MSSJ GT Goku's (Baby Saga) PL
40,000,000,000,000 SSGSS Goku's (Super) PL
245,000,000,000,000 SSJ2 GT Goku's (Baby Saga) PL
400,000,000,000,000 Kaioken x10 SSGSS Goku's (Super) PL
960,000,000,000,000 SSJ3 GT Goku's (Baby Saga) PL
250,000,000,000,000,000 Base Vegito's (Buu Saga) PL
11,520,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ4 GT Goku's (Baby Saga) PL
12,500,000,000,000,000,000 MSSJ Vegito's (Buu Saga) PL
57,600,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ4 GT Goku's Zenkai (Baby Saga) PL
87,500,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ2 Vegito's (Buu Saga) PL
350,000,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ3 Vegito's (Buu Saga) PL
4,200,000,000,000,000,000,000 God Vegito's (Super) PL (2X Buu Saga and not counting Namek Saga statement)
5,681,280,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ4 GT Goku (Hell Saga) PL
28,406,400,000,000,000,000,000 SSJ4 GT Goku (Shadow Dragon Saga) PL
I used a 5x zenkai for Baby Saga Goku and Shadow Dragon Saga Goku. I did this based on the beatings he got and the gap in his previous powers. And if you look at the official power levels for Namek Saga, most zenkais are around 4x to 5x the person's previous power. As for why SSJ4 Hell Saga Goku got such a big leap it's because Majuub was on par with Baby which one shotted SSJ3 GT Goku making Majuub about 4x as strong as SSJ3 Goku, because I think he was a TINY bit weaker than Baby. Now in the Hell Saga, Majuub couldn't even hurt Super 17 while MSSJ GT Goku was wrecking him. So I would put Super 17 at about 5x Majuub's strength and MSSJ Goku at 7x Majuub's strength. I don't think MSSJ Goku was twice as strong as Super 17 since he was landing some good hits at the end before he absorbed Goku's ki. I think Goku got so strong because the SSJ4 transformation boosted his base power.
SSJ4 GT Goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DB Super
As a quick little bonus, let's do a quick SSJ4 Gogeta vs a hypothetical Kaioken x10 SSGSS Vegito. Let's just start with normal Gogeta vs Vegito. I say they're equal and here is why. In Dragon Ball: Super Exciting Guide, it said potara is plxpl and Akira said the dance is pl+plx7. Now, here's the thing. I think Rival Boost is what makes it plxpl because when Kibito and Supreme Kai fuse, they should've easily handled Buu. The thing is they weren't rivals, so their multiplier was probably pl+plx7. So I think Vegito is only plxpl due to the rival boost. Now onto Gogeta... I think Gogeta has rival boost counting M12 and GT and here's why. Going off the pl+plx7 multiplier, MSSJ Gogeta would be around SSJ3 Goku's level, yet he one shotted Janemba. As for GT, Vegeta SSJ4 was as strong as SSJ4 Goku from the Baby Saga at best. Goku in the SD saga got tons of zenkais making him far above his Baby Saga self. So since he was beaten by Omega, his power was weak enough to fuse with Vegeta. I don't think 2 Baby Saga level Goku's added together and x7'd would've put Gogeta anywhere near Omega, let alone blink him across a city. This is implying Gogeta is also plxpl. This would make SSJ4 Gogeta a HIGH multiverse buster. Obviously he one shots everyone from Super by blinking including Kaioken x10 SSGSS Vegito. So if goku went ssj4 he will be the strongest character in dbs
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May 5th, 2017 02:48 AM |
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Placidity
Chief Executive Officer
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: Germany |
Good post, I definitely read the whole thing. Twice. 
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May 5th, 2017 10:52 AM |
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