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Legionaires Vs Heralds
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DarkSaint85
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Wait, I didn't know Stargrave had Superman esque stats.

Matter Eater Lad has bitten off his nose and eaten it before....


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 02:05 PM
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riv6672
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, I didn't know Stargrave had Superman esque stats.

Matter Eater Lad has bitten off his nose and eaten it before....

If i bump that Ultton thread, you better respond to it! stick out tongue


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 02:23 PM
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beatboks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by riv6672
That's the version i'm familiar with, so yes.

And Beatboks:
No prep means no prep.
That has NEVER been an issue here no matter how many precogs have happened to be on a team.
So, basically if you're hinging your whole strategy on that, your strategy is faulty.
You probably dont care, but then neither do i.


Prep by definition is something done before a battle starts. A vision of the attack that hasn't been launched at the outset of a battle is and never has been prep. It's also consistent with 60% of dream girls depictions.

That would be like calling Cass Caine's and Shiva's movement reading prep, or the vision of Argus that can project where attacks being initiated not yet done will land, Or DD's senses that can track and allow him to dodge multiple attacks prep.

I'm not hinging my whole strategy on anything. What I'm saying is that there are literally hundreds of scenarios done in Legion stories where teams of so called fodder faced equally powerful opponents who were capable of launching equally devastating attacks with greater speed than anyone on the heralds team. They didn't work in those hundreds of stories but we're supposed to buy that characters that actually don't use speed as much as those in the stories in question or even as capable of it are going to in character launch an attack that will succeed where they failed???

How does that make sense to anyone??? A team that had only 3 of the heavy hitters (as most consider them) took on the combined JLA and JSA in lighting saga. They had B5, KK (who I haven't mentioned), Timber Wolf, element lad, dream girl, Dawnstar, Sensor, Cosmic boy, Ultra Boy and wildfire. Sensor basically had both teams fighting phantasms. She even let them see through her illusions and have Superman confront another illusion of her (and let him believe he had badly hurt her). Lets also not forget that Sensor has also got the feat of depriving the emerald eye of Ekron of sight, a power artifact that has feats equaling "cosmic awareness"

It's a canon feat and has several instances of being used. There is literally no guarantee that the heralds would even know what they are truly fighting.

Honestly if you deny the Legion access to Sensor this whole thing opens up quite a bit. UNlike every other legionaire she got quite a boost in power post COIE that really moved her up several notches. Considering she's the one who killed Nemisis kid (the whole reason she became Sensor Girl was to try and get back into legion after having killed which got her expelled) after he killed her Love Karate Kid.

Hell Sensor can even remove the "illusion" of distance or size (or add it). SHe could make it appear that they are galaxies away when they are right beside them. Just like she can allow her team mates to see the far side of the galaxy as though they have superman's telescopic vision.

No Sensor for Legion and I could see this becoming a debatable fight. NO White/Black Witch as well and it would be case for the heralds at 6/10 or maybe a split.

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 02:25 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Heralds do have ' cosmic awareness', FWIW.


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 02:28 PM
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beatboks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
What actual feats do they have on Superman's level?

And his speed?

I was mostly going by the people in the actual picture shown, not the 60-100 other members. I just can't help noticing a lot of this is "well this person is like this person, and this person is like this person" instead of feats. "So and so is like Dr. Strange and Fate combined" and all that.

Some of the logic you put forth doesn't make any actual sense. It doesn't matter how many visions someone has if they aren't fast enough to do anything about it. Even though some 85% of the Legion lack the speed to even use her vision to avoid any kind of attack...whether they are telepathically linked or not. It's like when I see someone saying a force user can react to the Flash because of their "force precog".


Andromeda has knocked Mon-el across a solar system (at least some ways) from memory.

Can't recall any feats of the top of my head for Thunder. Though important to note Thunder is the only one drawing on the power of Shazam in the 30th century.

What difference does Blok's speed make when most of the heralds aren't actually fast?? The majority travel fast by bending space.

and yet those same fodder characters have reacted to faster opponents with said precog and TP links during battle.

You talk about the masses being taken down quick but that relies on the two GL's, the 4 Daxamite/Kryptonian level characters, White Witch, Wildfire, XS, Quantum Queen and a few others easily on their level doing nothing to protect their team mates.

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 02:38 PM
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beatboks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, I didn't know Stargrave had Superman esque stats.

Matter Eater Lad has bitten off his nose and eaten it before....


When was that, because Stargrave has had a few bodies and one gave Mon-el a bloody good fight. Pre COIE stargrave certainly wasn't "supe's level"

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 02:39 PM
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beatboks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Heralds do have ' cosmic awareness', FWIW.


As I said, so does the emerald Eye and Sensor blinded that which shut it down

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 02:41 PM
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DarkSaint85
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(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 03:09 PM
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Senor Cage
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Sensor Girl has also helped a Promethean Giant that was messed with.

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 04:32 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
Tough call. As stated above, many of the Legion would be cannon fodder without prep. Brainy is a pretty dangerous opponent with prep. Mon-El, Cosmic Boy, Ultra Boy, Blok, and Dawnstar wouldn't be enough IMO. The rest are just fodder ready to be BFR'd, or outright killed by Morg and Terrax. As for Matter Eater Lad, I'm not completely convinced that he would be capable of dealing with all of the Heralds. I'm sure I've missed something, so if anyone knows something that I don't I can easily be convinced otherwise.


Brainy's shields are useful, though. The things are damned near impenetrable. Only seen Darkseid ever break one, and that was with some effort. (Although Pre Crisis era).

And can we pick a Legion after crisis, but before Five Years Later? Because, that Legion has PC power levels..

You can even throw in pocket universe Superboy into that era..

Or what about the fact Five Years Later feature TWO Legion teams? Each as "real" as the other? How about Time Trapper being a member for like an issue?

And Legion of Three Worlds came out within the limitation, right? Are we only using one team? Sodam Yat?

Assuming the answer to most of this is "One team, official members only", all that needs clearing up is Pocket Universe Superboy, who is neither Supergirl.nor Superman.


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What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Last edited by cdtm on Apr 21st, 2016 at 04:53 PM

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 04:38 PM
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Senor Cage
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BTW, here is Sensor Girl fooling Superman, Power Girl, Hawkgirl, Red Tornando, Batman, Green Lantern, Hawkman, etc...

(please log in to view the image)

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 11:34 PM
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Basically Fantomex.

Old Post Apr 21st, 2016 11:39 PM
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riv6672
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Didnt think there'd be quite so much double talk without Kryptonians in the mix. Live and learn.


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Old Post Apr 22nd, 2016 05:20 AM
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beatboks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by riv6672
Didnt think there'd be quite so much double talk without Kryptonians in the mix. Live and learn.


It will probably piss abhi off but IMO post Crisis sensor is a much greater MVP 2 legion then superboy. No I'm the Big Blue Boy Scout post COIE take on the fatal 5 solo. Add to that the fact that white witch took Mordru's power from him.

We've already seen the scan where sensot deals with superman, powergirl (two Kryptonians) who had the help of two flashes, a GL, stargirl and IIRC wonder woman. There al9ne we havena single member not normally considered a heavy hitter keeping 6 herald level characters busy and out of the way.

White witch could just as easily take a few of them completely down and out.

Like i said bar these two and we have a very debatable match. Without Jeckie and WW only Mon-el, Andromeda, Thunder, Ultra-Boy, Quantum Queen and maybe XS can actually take on a herald solo.

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2016 06:36 AM
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Senor Cage
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by beatboks
It will probably piss abhi off but IMO post Crisis sensor is a much greater MVP 2 legion then superboy. No I'm the Big Blue Boy Scout post COIE take on the fatal 5 solo. Add to that the fact that white witch took Mordru's power from him.

We've already seen the scan where sensot deals with superman, powergirl (two Kryptonians) who had the help of two flashes, a GL, stargirl and IIRC wonder woman. There al9ne we havena single member not normally considered a heavy hitter keeping 6 herald level characters busy and out of the way.

White witch could just as easily take a few of them completely down and out.

Like i said bar these two and we have a very debatable match. Without Jeckie and WW only Mon-el, Andromeda, Thunder, Ultra-Boy, Quantum Queen and maybe XS can actually take on a herald solo.


What other things has Sensor Girl done? Do you have any respect threads/scans on Comicvine?

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2016 07:29 AM
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riv6672
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by beatboks
It will probably piss abhi off but IMO post Crisis sensor is a much greater MVP 2 legion then superboy.

Well, then all your precog shenanigans will have a positive effect. laughing out loud


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Old Post Apr 22nd, 2016 10:22 AM
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beatboks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by riv6672
Well, then all your precog shenanigans will have a positive effect. laughing out loud


All that was, was showing some examples how the fodder could be made relivent (and the regularly played plot devices used to make them so).

Jeckie and white witch are the biggest pieces on the board for LoSH without a doubt. Played right they can remove many opposing pieces from the board.

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2016 11:17 AM
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cdtm
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Black Witch seemed pretty op in LO3W, considering her opposition was stealing souls and all..


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What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2016 01:05 PM
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cdtm
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I don't know, that's a LOT of heralds.

Silver Surfer alone I'd put on a PC Kryptonian's level (Boo all you want, Norrin was crossing galaxies and evolving races, and beating skyfather+/Abstract Uni-Lord when Superman was stuck on Earth post crisis and needed a GL ride to travel).


__________________
What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2016 01:10 PM
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riv6672
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by beatboks
All that was, was showing some examples how the fodder could be made relivent (and the regularly played plot devices used to make them so).

Jeckie and white witch are the biggest pieces on the board for LoSH without a doubt. Played right they can remove many opposing pieces from the board.

Okay, we'll go with that.


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Old Post Apr 22nd, 2016 01:19 PM
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