>Arcann doesn't go down fast
>gets one-shotted by his weakened father while flailing his lightsaber randomly
If novel Vitiate does anything remotely like he did in the novel, he'll die. Caedus is much better back up than Meetra is. Period. And kek at Caedus dying before Arcann does.
>Implying that Vader wouldn't get oneshotted while flailing his lightsaber randomly
>FFS Ahsoka lasted quality time against Vader, who's very likely below The Outlander
> an hero
Well I don't doubt Vitiate falls against Vader AND Caedus. And yeah, Caedus would die before Arcann would. Viti's strongest attack had a Vader tier force user on the ground screaming in agonizing pain in seconds, and barring Drew's shit writing, he'd unleash that shit sooner rather than later. And Arcann lasts longer than Ahsoka Tano.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Skillz, you can't handwave Vitiate's poor performance with Drew's bad writing when Drew's writing is what makes "novel Vitiate" exist as a character. What happened still happened; whether it's from bad writing or some sort of necessary plot, it's useless to guess what the "real" Vitiate would've done - Drew's Vitiate is the "real" one.
Caedus is probably faster than Revan, and may have had time to close the gap.
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I don't even consider it a poor performance at peak value. oneshotting Revan with his strongest attack is pretty damned impressive, and is what makes me believe he wins this for his team. Not only that, but taking it at face value, Caedus wouldn't be closing the gap when Revan felt a well placed lightsaber throw or force attack wouldn't. Even furthermore, going by the novel, there's no way to really defend against Vitiate's form of mental domination if you're not prepared for it, hence why Revan had to teach Scourge and Meetra a specific technique. Hell, even a Revan who was prepared for it had to resort to doing some crazy force-in-balance blast.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Jacen was too powerful for UnUTHUL to dominate mentally, and Unu controlled an entire hive world of Kiliks and afflicted Luke with TP.
Vitiate's TP isn't doing shit
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Yes, Revan teaches them how to shield themselves from Vitiate's TP. Given that Meetra in particular has gone through Nihilus, (who's mere presence mentally enslaves beings) and the horrors of Malachor V and Nathema, her needing to learn how to defend against a TP assault does sort of imply that the TP in question may be unique.
Not at all.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Right, but now your assuming Revan's tutelage was necessary, when at best we can only assume it was helpful. Nor was Revan aware of what Meetra had experienced.Kinda do. If Revan couldn't overwhelm Vitiate's TP as of the novel, he wouldn't have gone and done so while incarcerated.
Lol, "Revan teaches them a specific technique to resist his TP."
"Eh, probably pointless. Drew just put it in for chuckles."
Valkorion wasn't weakened at that point. And that was a few years before Arcann's prime.
Arcann's feat against Valkorions lightning shows an incredible defensive ability, Vader isn't getting through him any time soon. And he's not being him in sabers quickly, if at all.
That is a special technique. Darth Revan was a massively talented telepath and was taught by Traya, another massively talented telepath. He still got owned instantly. It's safe to say all standard techniques are worthless. Revan has to know Vitiates tricks, to know how to counter him.
Arcann was beating the Outlander is sabers. Considering how insanely skilled all of the Outlanders can be (except Thor), that's pretty ****ing good. Also he was specifically noted to have a "nearly unbeatable defense". Vader certainly needs time to crack Arcann in any respect, if he can at all.
Right, but it was Jedi Revan, not Darth Revan, and when his mind was in a vulnerable and pliable state.
It's evident that Revan's personal experience with the Emperor made him better prepared to defend himself, which is what we would expect, but you continue to assume experience is the only effective counter. Against Zannah's complex telepathic techniques Bane discovered the only way to defend himself was sheer willpower, did that knowledge nonetheless prep him to shield his mind? Yes. But it was hardly necessary.
There is no basis to assume that without this "special knowledge" anyone facing off against Vitiate will be up the creek without a paddle, and frankly that line of reasoning is easily susceptible to a no-limits fallacy. Caedus has defended his mind against one of the most powerful telepathic entities in galactic history, that proof should be sufficient.
Concerning Outlander, a decent showing I guess, if we assume he wasn't weakened, but regarding that quote, how do we know its referring to his saber abilities?
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Last edited by Beniboybling on Apr 27th, 2016 at 10:43 PM
Revan by this point had already learned everything from Traya and plundered Malachor. And he wasn't vulnerable or pliable. He was walking into a fight.
Zannah didn't use telepathy, she used sorcery. Revan says that this time he can shield his mind because he knows Vitiates tricks and technique. Indicating that he couldn't before because his lack of knowledge hampered him. And I'm not suggesting only experience can counter. Obviously if you already knew the counter to Vitiates technique.... but nothing suggests Vader or Caedus know that.
It's not a no-limits fallacy when there is a clear limit. A technique that requires a specific counter and others are ineffective isn't a no-limits fallacy. If you're referring to Unuthul, his will was spread out over his whole colony and he was influencing other Jedi at the same time. Jacen merely resisted better than they did. And anyway, wasn't Unuthul himself being mentally influenced? By some shitty Dark Jedi at that. He was mighty when focusing all his attention on Luke, but iirc he never tried that with Jacen and failed. When his focus was spread out he wasn't absolute.
It's referring to both the Force and sabers, since he would be defending with both, obviously. The quote: "Arcann's prodigious skill with the Force and training with both the Knights and Scions of Zakuul gives him a nearly unbeatable defense."
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Last edited by Nephthys on Apr 27th, 2016 at 11:03 PM
Cool, still not as knowledgeable as he'd become though. And every source on that encounter makes explicit that because Revan (and Malak) were at the precipice of the dark side, it was made easy for Vitiate to corrupt and dominate them. With individuals like Anakin and Luke setting a precedent for being mentally pliable when in that nebulous state. Hence the reason they succumbed.Those aren't mutually exclusive.
And so did Bane, but nonetheless the counter he developed was pretty basic, though effective, and not necessarily something impossible to accomplish without prep. Its a no brainer that being literally mentally prepared against a TP attack as Revan was is going to useful, but that doesn't make a requirement.You are and it is. If we accept your assertions the only way to prove anyone has a counter to this technique is through personal experience of it, and discovery of this unnamed "technique", against anyone who lacks that it can be limitlessly asserted nothing suggests they know it and therefore they're ****ed.
So I guess Sidious, UnuThul, Luke and the Son would be fodderised as well. Lmao.If he can TP Luke Skywalker at full power does it really matter? Not when Vitiate can't even overpower the Outlander I wouldn't think. Fair enough.
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Last edited by Beniboybling on Apr 28th, 2016 at 09:20 AM
Apr 27th, 2016 09:23 PM
Fair enough.
