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Gladiator vs thor
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Rao Kal El
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Old Post Apr 30th, 2016 07:08 PM
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celeyhyga17
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend


Name one character that has superspeed but can't run fast.

Correction. It's characters that have superspeed, but don't usually run fast. In comics, you can have or exhibit tremendous super speed and not usually be portrayed as a speedster through the movement of your lower limbs or travel around everywhere with the style of a Flash or Quicksilver.

The idea of forcing specific a set of rules through rationalization or the use of real life physics just to identify whether one has superspeed is not only narrow minded, but quite frankly silly. I mean this is comics after all. A medium that is not only saturated with pseudo science, but also employs various story telling styles. Like CosmicComet said, "It's idiocy at its finest".

But to answer your question, here's a few who would fall in the has superspeed even though they don't go zipping around like a traditional speedster category.

Nova(Sam)
Doomsday
Mangog
Angela
Spectrum
Ray

Heck in The Kingdom, Gog was heavily implied to have movement in the nanoseconds. On panel he was able to perceive and react to an on coming Flash attack, but even he is never depicted zipping around blitzing everybody like a Flash.

Should I continue?


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Last edited by celeyhyga17 on May 1st, 2016 at 02:40 AM

Old Post May 1st, 2016 02:30 AM
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Sin I AM
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Its pointless


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Old Post May 1st, 2016 02:45 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Karate Kid and Aquaman are two characters that come to mind in most mediums.

They can react and process things way faster then they could move running.

They do not have superspeed.


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Old Post May 1st, 2016 04:08 AM
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abhilegend
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Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Correction. It's characters that have superspeed, but don't usually run fast. In comics, you can have or exhibit tremendous super speed and not usually be portrayed as a speedster through the movement of your lower limbs or travel around everywhere with the style of a Flash or Quicksilver.

The idea of forcing specific a set of rules through rationalization or the use of real life physics just to identify whether one has superspeed is not only narrow minded, but quite frankly silly. I mean this is comics after all. A medium that is not only saturated with pseudo science, but also employs various story telling styles. Like CosmicComet said, "It's idiocy at its finest".

But to answer your question, here's a few who would fall in the has superspeed even though they don't go zipping around like a traditional speedster category.

Nova(Sam)
Doomsday
Mangog
Angela
Spectrum
Ray


Except they do. Doomsday has outright blitzed people running on foot.

So have Monica and Ray. Mangog doesn't has superspeed.

[quote[Heck in The Kingdom, Gog was heavily implied to have movement in the nanoseconds. On panel he was able to perceive and react to an on coming Flash attack, but even he is never depicted zipping around blitzing everybody like a Flash. [/quote]

The fact that he was able to perceive Flash and Rip in nanoseconds tell us where he has in speed. Or you sure about that?

quote:
Should I continue?
By all means do. Its always amusing to see you flail.


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Old Post May 1st, 2016 04:20 AM
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celeyhyga17
Yawning Void

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Except they do. Doomsday has outright blitzed people running on foot.

So have Monica and Ray. Mangog doesn't has superspeed.

The fact that he was able to perceive Flash and Rip in nanoseconds tell us where he has in speed. Or you sure about that?

By all means do. Its always amusing to see you flail.

Lol... No one is claiming they don't.

Doomsday hit people and Booster Gold made a comment that he was faster than Flash.

Monica and Ray are never depicted landing blows in the hundreds or running from place to place at super speed.

So Mangog has no superspeed even though he is able to hit Thor with multiple blows at such a speed that a highly advanced alien AI whose sole purpose is to record events is unable to tally the amount with its instruments...
erm
(please log in to view the image)

Why did you repeat what I said about Kingdom Gog?


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Old Post May 1st, 2016 04:34 PM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Lol... No one is claiming they don't.

Doomsday hit people and Booster Gold made a comment that he was faster than Flash.


Superman straight up says he needs to go faster than usual to match Doomsday.

That's better proof of superspeed than anything Thor has.
quote:


Monica and Ray are never depicted landing blows in the hundreds or running from place to place at super speed.


They both have done things at superspeed. Monica has run on foot. Ray has painted Metron's symbol all over Earth at superspeed.

So Mangog has no superspeed even though he is able to hit Thor with multiple blows at such a speed that a highly advanced alien AI whose sole purpose is to record events is unable to tally the amount with its instruments...
erm
(please log in to view the image)
[/quote]

Yes. You should show the fastest scene Recorder has recorded.

Well, go on. I'll wait.
quote:


Why did you repeat what I said about Kingdom Gog?

That his appearances were not of a speedster? He had absorbed the power of dozen of superheroes with superspeed.

He didn't act like one but that doesn't means he wasn't a speedster or lacked the ability to do so.


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Old Post May 1st, 2016 05:49 PM
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Bolo Yueng
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Kingdom Gog displays superspeed at least once in the Kingdom.

Old Post May 1st, 2016 05:54 PM
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EcstaticGrace
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
They do not have superspeed.


Examples of Aquaman charging at people with Superspeed, perceiving people with Superspeed and reacting to people would disagree with you.

Example of Karate Kid's dancing around Kryptonians and Daxamites

Old Post May 1st, 2016 07:15 PM
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carver9
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Hawkman also perceived Flash moving at super speed.


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Old Post May 1st, 2016 07:28 PM
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EcstaticGrace
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Hawkman also perceived Flash moving at super speed.


Another good example of a character with Superspeed but can't run at those said speeds.

Old Post May 1st, 2016 07:29 PM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Examples of Aquaman charging at people with Superspeed, perceiving people with Superspeed and reacting to people would disagree with you.

Example of Karate Kid's dancing around Kryptonians and Daxamites

Uh, what? Arthur doesn't has superspeed. Rhino can charge up to 100 mph and above too. I'm not going to call him a Speedster.

For Val, it's all space karate. As ridiculous as that is.


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Old Post May 2nd, 2016 02:55 AM
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EcstaticGrace
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh, what? Arthur doesn't has superspeed. Rhino can charge up to 100 mph and above too. I'm not going to call him a Speedster.

For Val, it's all space karate. As ridiculous as that is.


Pre-Crisis Aquaman was suggested as faster then Superman while swimming and Superman at points couldn't react to him when flying by his own admission. Pre-Crisis Aquaman could also trail a flying Wonder Woman by his own statement and suggested this to be true when he followed her to Paradise Island despite not knowing where it was. By logic that would imply his perception works at super fast levels.

Yet I've yet to see him run at speeds he can swim at but he is able to charge at superspeed whether straightforward like in TOA at Wonder Woman or upwards in the air.

Faster on land

http://imgur.com/a/vPvnu

Can trail a flying Wonder Woman

http://imgur.com/3AozaVD

Lands a punch on Superman

http://imgur.com/GHLeATf

Reacts to Wonder Woman

http://imgur.com/5Ga3qVy

Notices a Wally clone's movements while engaged in his own fight

http://i.imgur.com/oap7u7w.jpg

Suprsises a running Barry Allen

http://i.imgur.com/BUkMAOm.jpg

Reflexively forms a fist at a running Barry Allen

http://imgur.com/yVCId3m

Keeping up with Speedsters

http://imgur.com/a/ipe99


Even Mera has a feat from sea level to above the clouds where she's jumping onto a Hypersonic Airplane.

Old Post May 2nd, 2016 03:06 AM
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EcstaticGrace
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Last edited by EcstaticGrace on May 2nd, 2016 at 03:14 AM

Old Post May 2nd, 2016 03:12 AM
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Horrificus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Who said anything about comics as a separated form of fiction?

It makes no sense for an organic being to have orders of magnitude faster movement speed 'in a fight' vs movement speed in a run. The exact same muscles are being used, and your muscles can't be orders of magnitudes faster than your own muscles. That's the idiotic statement that would have to be passively agreed to.

You can't just hand-wave everything with 'its fiction', else we would never use terms like PIS or CIS in the first place.

I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, for example some characters automatically gain stat amps when they are fighting.


And I can't believe people have yet to understand the Bruce Lee vs Usain Bolt comparison for what it really is.

Two high level human athletes (and thus their perception speed is equivalent), who have muscle memory specialized for two different activities (though both activities are anaerobic/fast twitch dominant). One for fighting, and one for sprinting. In relative terms there may be a big difference between their capabilities, but in absolute terms, there isn't. Both are in the same range. The human range.

Usain Bolt wouldn't have the natural ingrained reactions to an incoming punch, so he won't move or counter with as much efficiency, but he could obviously train to overcome that and get better. Could he be as great a fighter as Bruce Lee? It's possible. Hell he could be better. We don't know his intangibles (heart, chin, how fast he learns and adapts etc), but he has the physical requirements down. Fast twitch muscles are a god-send for fight potential. See Ali and Roy Jones Jr.

If you simply ask Bolt to throw the most basic punch ever, as fast as he can (a jab), then most likely his jab would actually be faster or at least as fast as Lee's. Partly because Usain Bolt is a fast-twitch God, and partly because his limbs are longer than Lee's so his fist will likely be traveling at a greater speed. Simple physics on that.

Will his jab be as *quick* to be thrown at as Lee's? Obviously no, he will have some wasted motion and telegraphing in the start up, but the end speed won't change.

On the other hand, Bruce Lee no matter how much he trained, would ever be as fast as Usain Bolt at his peak. That's just biology.

Usain Bolt is like ~27 mph. On average more like 23. Bruce Lee, might be able to run 13.

But, the main thing is that their perception speed is equivalent, being human.

27 mph would feel roughly the same to both of them (it would feel somewhat faster to Lee since he is shorter).

If Usain Bolt's was perception speed was so much better than Lee's that his 27mph felt like only 13 mph does to Lee though, then he'd whoop Lee no matter how much muscle memory Lee has built up in fighting.

He'd see Lee moving in relative slow motion.

But he doesn't. 27 mph is still 27 mph, to both of them.


The Usain Bolt/Bruce Lee comparison was used for two speedsters. Superman and WW. That just means they are in the same 'range', but that Superman has greater raw speed and Wonder Woman is better trained as a fighter and thus less wasted motion.

It is not some kind of "Gotcha!" analogy that can explain how someone immensely slower than Quicksilver (which Thor is) can fight someone orders of magnitude faster than Quicksilver (which Gladiator is).
Thor wins.

Old Post May 2nd, 2016 04:21 AM
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celeyhyga17
Yawning Void

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Nidavellir

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman straight up says he needs to go faster than usual to match Doomsday.

That's better proof of superspeed than anything Thor has.

And yet we don't see Doomsday zipping around leaving after images... Get it?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

They both have done things at superspeed. Monica has run on foot. Ray has painted Metron's symbol all over Earth at superspeed.

No shiet. I am not saying that they don't have superspeed.

Oh btw regarding Monica. Are you talking about the race? She was actually floating more than running and was disqualified.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

Yes. You should show the fastest scene Recorder has recorded.

Well, go on. I'll wait.

Huh? This is silly. It's an advanced ai that can calculate things like a supercomputer. For example, it was able to tally an actual amount of Rigellians who died instantly from an explosion that Mangog caused. The figure was like 12,216 dead dying in an instant. It was also able to calculate that 50% of Rigel's population had perished in 11.2 seconds caused by a massive radiation wave from Thanos's ship and only 12% were remaining by the time 24.2 seconds elapsed.

On panel he's recorded things that happened in the space of a second and in the space of a heartbeat.
He can also play back things he has recorded for even better analysis. His highly advanced sensors can also detect things that are not in front of him..

It's almost like asking can WBH push a planet, but have people say he can't because he never did it on panel even though he has feats that surpass it. Come on man...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

That his appearances were not of a speedster? He had absorbed the power of dozen of superheroes with superspeed.

He didn't act like one but that doesn't means he wasn't a speedster or lacked the ability to do so.

Lol... Exactly.

Look at what I said originally.

"It's characters that have superspeed, but don't usually run fast. In comics, you can have or exhibit tremendous super speed and not usually be portrayed as a speedster through the movement of your lower limbs or travel around everywhere with the style of a Flash or Quicksilver."


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Old Post May 2nd, 2016 09:01 PM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Pre-Crisis Aquaman was suggested as faster then Superman while swimming and Superman at points couldn't react to him when flying by his own admission.


Issue number please.

quote:
Pre-Crisis Aquaman could also trail a flying Wonder Woman by his own statement and suggested this to be true when he followed her to Paradise Island despite not knowing where it was. By logic that would imply his perception works at super fast levels.


That's a leap of logic if I ever saw one.

quote:
Yet I've yet to see him run at speeds he can swim at but he is able to charge at superspeed whether straightforward like in TOA at Wonder Woman or upwards in the air.

Faster on land

http://imgur.com/a/vPvnu

Can trail a flying Wonder Woman

http://imgur.com/3AozaVD

Lands a punch on Superman

http://imgur.com/GHLeATf

Reacts to Wonder Woman

http://imgur.com/5Ga3qVy

Notices a Wally clone's movements while engaged in his own fight

http://i.imgur.com/oap7u7w.jpg

Suprsises a running Barry Allen

http://i.imgur.com/BUkMAOm.jpg

Reflexively forms a fist at a running Barry Allen

http://imgur.com/yVCId3m

Keeping up with Speedsters

http://imgur.com/a/ipe99


Even Mera has a feat from sea level to above the clouds where she's jumping onto a Hypersonic Airplane.


Are these supposed to be speed feat? He lands a punch on Superman who was not expecting it? Surprising Barry?

I can better speed feats from Rogues.


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Old Post May 3rd, 2016 03:03 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place


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Old Post May 3rd, 2016 03:04 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
And yet we don't see Doomsday zipping around leaving after images... Get it?


We don't?

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...zps4f1bfeb6.jpg

What's that? Oh yes, Doomsday zipping around blitzing people.


quote:
No shiet. I am not saying that they don't have superspeed.

Oh btw regarding Monica. Are you talking about the race? She was actually floating more than running and was disqualified.


She was moving her legs but they were not touching the line.

quote:
Huh? This is silly. It's an advanced ai that can calculate things like a supercomputer. For example, it was able to tally an actual amount of Rigellians who died instantly from an explosion that Mangog caused. The figure was like 12,216 dead dying in an instant. It was also able to calculate that 50% of Rigel's population had perished in 11.2 seconds caused by a massive radiation wave from Thanos's ship and only 12% were remaining by the time 24.2 seconds elapsed.


That's not fast by any computer's range. If he takes seconds to calculate that. he is a shitty AI.

quote:
On panel he's recorded things that happened in the space of a second and in the space of a heartbeat.


That's supposed to be fast?


quote:
He can also play back things he has recorded for even better analysis. His highly advanced sensors can also detect things that are not in front of him..


And?

quote:
It's almost like asking can WBH push a planet, but have people say he can't because he never did it on panel even though he has feats that surpass it. Come on man...


I'm just asking for speed feats for this "AI".

This is a mental calculation feat.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/...ercomputer1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/...ercomputer2.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/...ercomputer3.jpg


quote:
Lol... Exactly.

Look at what I said originally.

"It's characters that have superspeed, but don't usually run fast. In comics, you can have or exhibit tremendous super speed and not usually be portrayed as a speedster through the movement of your lower limbs or travel around everywhere with the style of a Flash or Quicksilver."


Your desperation to give Thor super speed is noted and disregarded.

Tell us more about lightspeed Thor though. That never gets old.


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Old Post May 3rd, 2016 03:13 AM
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EcstaticGrace
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Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Issue number please.



That's a leap of logic if I ever saw one.



Are these supposed to be speed feat? He lands a punch on Superman who was not expecting it? Surprising Barry?

I can better speed feats from Rogues.


Superman has super reaction. He was looking at the direction Arthur was coming out of with the "What was that" statement and Batman explains what he hit Arthur with. Aquaman comes out of the fire talking before he hits Superman who was behind Wonder Woman and Batman. So he charged at him before a reaction.

He later Reacts to Wonder Woman's lasso and then charges her in the page after.

It's more you downplaying several instances because your logic went from being questionable to being proved wrong..

Aquaman's been able to process/perceive the movements of speedsters, react to Speedsters and keep up with Speedsters while swimming. Yet he can't run at those speeds. You suggested characters haven't been shown to have super speed without being to run at said speeds a lot of the stuff I posted disagrees.

It's cute how you ignore the fact Barry is running at Superspeed above water or the scan of him swimming next to characters running at super speed.

Last edited by EcstaticGrace on May 3rd, 2016 at 04:17 AM

Old Post May 3rd, 2016 04:14 AM
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