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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Best Debaters


Best Debaters
Started by: Syndicate

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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

On the other hand, those who refuse to accept Sheev into their heart are the worse debaters of all. sad


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Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 10:11 AM
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YousufKhan1212
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2017
Location: Northern England.


 

What is Sheev? Our lord and saviour?

Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 10:55 AM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

Yiz, Hallowed Be His Name. thumb up


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"Show me again, the power of the darkness..."
-- Darth Plagueis Respect Thread --

Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 11:03 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
The two trains crashing together and killing dozens of people is a worse event than hot coffee getting thrown into a person's face. The person who intentionally threw hot coffee into someone's face is a morally worse person than the one who accidentally crashed two trains together. The question of morality is more accurate to what this thread's purpose is.

Well said

Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 11:14 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yiz, Hallowed Be His Name. thumb up

Nah man, lets hallow that floating ball that saved us from sheev's dickless empire

Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 11:16 AM
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The Lost
M E G A

Registered: Feb 2015
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
The two trains crashing together and killing dozens of people is a worse event than hot coffee getting thrown into a person's face. The person who intentionally threw hot coffee into someone's face is a morally worse person than the one who accidentally crashed two trains together. The question of morality is more accurate to what this thread's purpose is.


I can agree with most of that, only taking exception to the question of morality being more relevant to the thread's purpose (or more accurate), considering this is a thread about the best debaters and morality doesn't exactly account for ability, not that you necessarily believe that.

The analogy I wrote probably presents itself as a somewhat (minor) moral conundrum so I can accept why it likely distracted a little. However, the purpose was strictly to establish intent vs outcome.

quote:
People who truly believe bullshit and debate said bullshit honestly may indeed be worse for the forum as a whole compared to proven lying phaggots, but they are still better debaters than the liars. Which, to be honest, you've already essentially acknowledged. A lying scum**** bastard is so nonthreatening in a debate as to be a non-factor that you can easily dismiss. Their ability to factor into a debate is almost nonexistent, hence they are the worst debaters. Biased people who nonetheless honestly argue their stance, by your own admission, are not so easily dismissed.


Context is enormous here. Relevant to this thread? I'd agree. Generally? I can't.

Someone who lies (AP as an example, at least from what I've heard) about what they're debating about, inventing sources and information? They're likely a shittier debater and mostly chime in to polemicize anyway. Someone who is biased but points to genuine sources and such? They can be right if the source favors their bias but wrong if it doesn't (someone who is typically biased will misinterpret the source to benefit whatever they might be biased toward) so it's usually a bit of a crapshoot.

In general? Just to cover bases here? It's incredibly dependent. Someone might lie through their teeth but might not about sources and debate effectively, perhaps even lying about their particular stance (Cognitive dissonance? Contrarianism? Phony devil's advocacy? The intention probably has a dynamic range) but still be effective at debate. Someone who's biased might not be capable of that or even as adept at formulating anything worth argumentation.

Also, those are biased but honest not easily dismissed is part of the point. Sure, they aren't lying but it begs the question of whether they should still be taken as seriously. If someone is obvious about it, we dismiss them as "fanboys" and do not take them seriously, probably with about as much contention as we would someone who is outright dishonest. If the person is biased and has an iota of debate ability? I think we lose that contention and it's also why I think it's worse to the overall "health" (forgive me for not finding a more suitable term) of a debate environment.

quote:
I can accept and even agree that someone who is irrationally biased and boneheaded is overall more corrosive to a healthy debating environment. thumb up


Fair enough.

quote:
But that's not what this thread is about. AP (I have no idea if what people say about him is true btw) is considered the worst debater on this board because he outright lies and fabricates sources to support his argument. A stance supported by biased, irrational interpretations of real sources is still better than one supported by shit someone literally made up I'd say. The latter is a more severe mark of a poor debater than the former I'd say, even if the former is potentially more damaging toward constructive discourse on the whole.


A stance supported by biased, irrational interpretations is something I would argue isn't truly supported. Someone who is generally biased can be correct but definitely not consistently so just due to the intrinsic nature of having prejudice towards a subject/object/etc. At some point, they will inevitably come up short.

Mostly? I'd agree that the outright dishonest individual is typically a more abysmal debater. Individually, it's usually embarrassing and even with a couple of them, it's not much of an issue. Overall, we mostly agree.


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Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 11:32 AM
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Azronger
Vanguard of the Sheevites

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Lost
When someone genuinely believes something? They can appear convincing or even more credible, as they're much more confident and less likely to fumble how they discuss what they "know." It is even more harmful in numbers. An example would be how there are so many people biased and/or convinced of Sidious and his abilities among this forum.

I mean, there's no denying his power (particularly if we are discussing Legends and DE Sidious) but this seeps into other incarnations of the character and produces a stronger prejudice towards his ability.


Are you talking about me lol


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Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 01:24 PM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

no


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Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 02:29 PM
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The Lost
M E G A

Registered: Feb 2015
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Are you talking about me lol



No, not specifically.


But... come on...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...00#post15988500


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Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 02:43 PM
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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Lost
This makes little sense. If you're aware of someone lying regarding sources and it's "clear cut", that awareness fundamentally reduces it's threat to the debating community, as everyone involved or aware of the individual is keen on how they operate and can choose to ignore them and subsequently reject the false claims/information they're sharing. I can agree it might harm some but not to the extent you seem to implying.

When someone genuinely believes something? They can appear convincing or even more credible, as they're much more confident and less likely to fumble how they discuss what they "know." It is even more harmful in numbers. An example would be how there are so many people biased and/or convinced of Sidious and his abilities among this forum.

I mean, there's no denying his power (particularly if we are discussing Legends and DE Sidious) but this seeps into other incarnations of the character and produces a stronger prejudice towards his ability.

To put it into perspective, if you had several known liars who openly spread misinformation and are purposely fibbing, you can discount them wholesale. Get a decent number of people who are biased together and genuinely believe/support their perspective regarding the character/subject/whatever? That can be devastating and much more than someone just making shit up on the fly to appear correct or more knowledgeable.

Yeah, we can argue that the dude who purposely does it is worse but this has little to do with which is more harmful and insidious. It also doesn't determine which is harder to deal with, all which falls under my point.


AP poses little threat now because he's already been exposed, but at one point, he had had an entire forum under his sway and his lies likely still effect debaters from there to this day. As I mentioned, with the biased individuals who genuinely believe what they're spouting, you can dismiss their claims if they don't make sense ( as with anything else ) and if they do make sense then they're of course worth considering.


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Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 04:14 PM
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Azronger
Vanguard of the Sheevites

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Lost
No, not specifically.


But... come on...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...00#post15988500


How long have you been stalking me lmao


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"Go worth, my child, and impale your enemies with the banner of Sheev." - The_Tempest, Grand Vizier to His Imperial Majesty Sheev Palpatine

Old Post Sep 18th, 2017 05:36 PM
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The Lost
M E G A

Registered: Feb 2015
Location:


 

Uh, it's in your profile...


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Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 01:29 AM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


 

laughing out loud


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Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 01:57 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:


 

Likely story. xD


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Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 03:19 AM
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Azronger
Vanguard of the Sheevites

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: At the forefront of Sheev's armies


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Lost
Uh, it's in your profile...


Hm fair point. I forgot about that lol


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"Go worth, my child, and impale your enemies with the banner of Sheev." - The_Tempest, Grand Vizier to His Imperial Majesty Sheev Palpatine

Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 03:53 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

I like how me fvcking around with an entire forum, who were stupid enough not to check real sources, equates to me inventing sources as an actual means of winning debates.

I haven't given a, that's not how I've rolled for almost ten years.

I like to entertain the shit that passes for debating on any given forum by using their own 'logic' against them.

But I stopped bullshitting after Ant had his first orgasm, thinking he'd scored by 'conquering' SWTOR forums, when the fact was there was nothing to conquer in the first place.

What's even better is how much straight up paranoia I stirred up to the point that Selenial can't help herself but mention me in every other post she's made for like three years.

Yet Syn thinks he can make comments about shit he wasn't around for, lol.


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Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 05:40 AM
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|King Joker|
Your Excellency

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Transcendent


 

I love how AP gets caught red-handed doing stupid shit and then tries to spin it to make it look like he's smarter than he actually is instead of owning up to what he did. It's especially amusing how he seems to think it isn't obvious as **** that that's what he's doing, too, lol.

The line of justification "you're just stupid for falling for my manipulation!" is also a common tactic used by manipulative psychopaths, btw.


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Last edited by |King Joker| on Sep 19th, 2017 at 06:18 AM

Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 06:10 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

I'm sorry, I don't remember you even being involved.

But nope, I made up some of the most hilarious sh!t and passed it off as legitimate in that place. I almost felt a little sorry for them, at least the one's who were worth a discussion anyhow.


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Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 08:01 AM
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MythLord
New God

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: New Genesis


 

Ah, so you acknowledge you're a psychopath.

Honestly, how you can boast about lying to people just to push some worthless agenda on the internet is beyond me.


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Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 08:03 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

If Joker was right. (Though that's an ironic sentence in and of itself.)

It wasn't an agenda, it was me mocking a so-called debating forum, which used Wookieepedia almost exclusively as a source. So I took it one step further and convinced them of nonexistent feats/accolades. Then they all seemed so surprised, and then even raged about it to the point that Sel and others literally obsessed about nothing but me in a private chat. (Thanks Skillz, priceless.)

Even Temp would have to be impressed by that.


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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.

Old Post Sep 19th, 2017 08:09 AM
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