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Best Debaters
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samappo
Senior Member

Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple


 

I guess I haven't participated in a proper debate, hence my absence from anyone's list.


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Old Post Dec 30th, 2017 08:38 AM
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NewGuy01
perpetual

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: USA


NewGuy01 is online now!

laughing out loud

These are the kinds of posts that make this thread worth it.


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Old Post Dec 30th, 2017 08:59 AM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by samappo
I guess I haven't participated in a proper debate, hence my absence from anyone's list.


It's pretty hard to make the best debaters list if you don't actually, you know, debate, shampoo.


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Old Post Dec 30th, 2017 12:24 PM
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Not_a_sock
Restricted

Registered: Dec 2017
Location: Rose Tico's Fat Chink Face

Account Restricted


 

1. Nai
2. ILS/Ziggy
3. Nova
4. DMB

No one else matters.

EDIT: Forgot about Ant, he's good sometimes and why the **** is DC in anyone's list?


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Last edited by Not_a_sock on Dec 30th, 2017 at 12:33 PM

Old Post Dec 30th, 2017 12:30 PM
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Ursumeles
Traitor

Registered: Sep 2016
Location: Outside the Universe


Ursumeles is online now!

lol


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Old Post Dec 30th, 2017 12:31 PM
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The Ellimist
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


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Not including myself, and including only active/semi-active KMC SW vs. debaters, my top tier in no particular order:

Tempest
ILS
Nova
NewGuy

With possible inclusions by:

Ant
DMB

Azronger may be there soon, and others like Syndicate are also pretty good but don't make the top tier.

Not sure if I forgot anyone.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 06:22 AM
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quanchi112
I win

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

Who cares, Ellimist.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 01:34 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

1. Nai
2. Ancient Power
3. Darth Ant 66
4. Nephytis


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The Ellimist: "Nadd is the 90 IQ guy who acts like a 70 IQ guy to make fun of the nerds"

Old Post Jan 6th, 2018 01:47 AM
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The Ellimist
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


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lol


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2018 01:51 AM
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quanchi112
I win

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
lol
Who cares what you think.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2018 03:55 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

BoardWalker

/thread


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2018 03:56 AM
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DarthAnt66
bearly

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

thumb up


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2018 04:08 AM
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The Lost
Sorgo

Registered: Feb 2015
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's pretty hard to make the best debaters list if you don't actually, you know, debate, shampoo.

lol no


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2018 04:58 AM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
lol


Did you just reference the reversed version of last episode when 'Good' sounds like 'Lol'?


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The Ellimist: "Nadd is the 90 IQ guy who acts like a 70 IQ guy to make fun of the nerds"

Old Post Jan 6th, 2018 11:07 PM
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The Ellimist
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


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Just in terms of pure, general debating ability, domain specific knowledge and work ethic not counted for the sake of the comparison:

  • no particular ordering within tiers
  • myself not included
  • didn't include everyone for the sake of brevity, no slight intended / off the top of my head
  • nothing personal from low rankings
  • obviously subject to change
  • paraphrasing names so apologies if you share one


Legendary:

The Tempest

Upper Elite:

ILS
NewGuy

Elite:

Nova
Skillz
DMB
Nai

Borderline Elite:

Ant
Bart
DarthSkywalker0
Ziggy

Excellent:

Beni
Joker

Good:

Syndicate
Urs
Carthage

...
...

Proficient:

Neph
Freshest
Kenshin

...

Bad:

Ancient Power

Cringe:

quanchi
SW_Legend


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Last edited by The Ellimist on Jan 21st, 2018 at 11:33 AM

Old Post Jan 21st, 2018 11:26 AM
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Ursumeles
Traitor

Registered: Sep 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist

Good:

Syndicate
Urs
Carthage


lol

Personally, I think Tempest and ILS are the top. NewGuy is maybe up there as well, as his posts are generally pretty great, and his hype is top tier, but I havenīt seen enough of him. Ant is a step down, and he is probably followed by Ell and then Nova, but both have quite a few low showings. Skillz, DMB, Bart, Ziggy and possibly Sel are there as well, while Beni is solidly behind due to his low showings. Az prolly follows him, excluding his shit opinions. Not sure about nai.


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Old Post Jan 21st, 2018 11:51 AM
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The Ellimist
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


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^ to justify the above: (edit: Urs posted in-between) some minor changes, same caveats apply (e.g. no ordering within tiers, don't take it personally, just pure debating skill not taking into account work ethic or knowledge, etc.)

Legendary:

The Tempest - best combination of rhetorical mastery, social manipulation, logical precision, insight, etc. A true master of the art.

Upper Elite: - could consider merging with the above. High-level argumentation with an extra level of "holy sh*t that was so insightful" and "wow you picked up on that line of reasoning really quickly".

ILS - in addition to being a great wordsmith, he picks up on concepts and formulates complex arguments very quickly and effectively, both inside and outside of Star Wars. Seldom commits blunders.
NewGuy - great word economy and high insight + logic skills, can make groundbreaking points with minimal words but knows how to wall-of-text debate as well.
[I'd insert myself here but YMMV, when I put focus and effort in I think my grasp of logical argumentation on a precise and technical level is perhaps the best on KMC, and I am elite at the other areas like rhetoric and insight too. Then again I'm adjusting my lower showings for my knowledge that I didn't put full effort in, while not as strongly adjusting for when others possibly don't, so it's hard to tell]

Elite: Only an extra "wow" factor separates this and the above. Could interchange with the above.

Nova - high logical acumen who can analyze arguments and evidence with great precision, only doesn't make upper elite for slight disparity in rhetoric and "wow" factor.
Skillz - incredibly insightful and understands arguments / logic very easily. Not as precise as Nova or those in higher tiers but that may be due to differences in effort, so I put them on the same level.
DMB - comes up with some of the most complex arguments and interpretations I've ever seen on a wide variety of topics, only specific debate fineries like strategic framing and really elite rhetoric keep him from upper elite.
Nai - would be upper elite or even legendary in terms of rhetorical power and ability to generate complex arguments, but those complex arguments can contain naked sophistry so he's hard to place.

Borderline Elite: Elite level with some sort of noticeable limitation.

Ant - one of the most insightful people on this list with great success in swaying opinion (usually) and elite rhetoric, just can commit logical blunders and not grasp more technical concepts like some of the higher tiers.
Bart - great argumentation skill and can follow arguments and lines of reasoning very well. However, his strengths in humor and trolling aren't being counted here (though they are important) so he doesn't get into the higher tiers.
DarthSkywalker0 - prodigious intellect and information processing, hindered a bit by some logical blunders and not "getting" some rebuttals (e.g. Ant). Enormous potential.
Ziggy - very precise logic and argumentation, some tendencies of sophistry and a lack of "wow" factor keep him from higher tiers.

Excellent: High-level argumentation just without the forum-swaying domination of the above.

Beni - excellent debater (when he wants to be) across the board, just with some more philosophically/academically complex topics would not choose over most on the higher tiers (but still obviously better than most).
Joker - based on what I see of him he's a really good debater, just doesn't stand out enough for upper tiers.
Selenial - see Joker.

Good: This is the threshold at which you can engage in a debate over pretty much any subject that you both have knowledge over and isn't fantastically technical, caveating intellectual honesty, and still have a productive conversation.

Syndicate - comes up with great arguments and insight but doesn't do actual debating at an elite level.
Urs - dunno honestly, kind of guessing. I don't remember him making lots of "wow" or groundbreaking arguments but he can logically follow points well. Might be a lack of memory on debates with him.

Decent: Like good but not as uniformly confident that you can have a productive conversation with them over a more complex topic than Star Wars.

Carthage - very good debater, makes coherent arguments, but doesn't "get" more nuanced or complex arguments very well (e.g. meta, theory/model creation, etc.) and will just stonewall them.

...

Proficient: They clearly usually make arguments that make sense, but when the chips really fall down they stop following things.

Neph - can debunk a bad argument with some good rhetoric and makes coherent arguments, but not overly impressive and won't come up with particularly unique or interesting points. Stonewalls and just stops engaging when the points are too nuanced.
Freshest - see Neph.
Kenshin - fairly eloquent rhetorician who obviously grasps argumentation to a decent degree, but often makes rather non-responsive arguments and doesn't get more complex points. Non-responsiveness may be impeding potential.

...

Bad: Some competence but frequently makes just "WTF" bad arguments.

Ancient Power - can make coherent lines of argument but then goes off the deep end when the rebuttals get tougher, starts blanket denying things with no justification, appeals lots of incredulity, makes bizarre inferences from evidence, etc.

Cringe: Self-explanatory.

quanchi - doesn't respond to or make any but the most simplistic points. Gets beaten by literal satire bad-debater accounts.
SW_Legend - routinely presents evidence that debunks his own case as though it proved it, makes cringe arguments of little coherence. More responsive than quanchi but with a higher cringe factor.


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Last edited by The Ellimist on Jan 21st, 2018 at 12:05 PM

Old Post Jan 21st, 2018 11:52 AM
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The Ellimist
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2016
Location: United States


The Ellimist is online now!

^ to add onto the above, let's say I just want to discuss some complicated topic with someone and we're ignoring more specific debating ability and personality. So, this is just intellect (or at least general conceptual reasoning ability + rationality). Then the list goes (no ordering within clusters):

ILS

NewGuy(?)
DMB
Nova
Tempest
Skillz
DarthSkywalker0

Nai(?)
Ziggy (might be higher)

Ant (might be higher)
Joker
Bart(?)

then a bunch of tiers below this

^ all way above the general population

(omitting a lot of people as this is just off the cuff)

Though this list is more tenuous.


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Last edited by The Ellimist on Jan 21st, 2018 at 12:31 PM

Old Post Jan 21st, 2018 12:28 PM
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MythLord
Master of Magnetism

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Somewhere in Germany


 

wut about meh?


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Old Post Jan 21st, 2018 01:17 PM
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cs_zoltan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Hungary


 

Who are you?


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Old Post Jan 21st, 2018 01:18 PM
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