Sodium... yet it benefits my favourite characters... Keep working on it, ILS. Anyways, while it's all well and good to use Fact File, just saying "feats don't matter" honestly doesn't make any sense. Mediums are overexaggerated or underplayed, true, but then it's up to the debater to find some middle ground. But to completely disregard them on a flimsy basis isn't exactly the best way of going around debating. What a character can achieve, alongside powerscaling and accolades, should all be used to compare and contrast.
Also, regarding the Labyrinth of Evil quote, while it does show that the Jedi grew more powerful, it clearly isn't by the same extent as the Sith grew, according to the RotS novel.
Plus as I just now see it, just because the Jedi were training for the last war, doesn't mean that they stagnated or didn't develop. They were just training to fight a horde of Sith coming down upon them.
Grew, but not to nearly the same extent as the Sith grew, or at least that's how Stover and Lucas paint it out to be. Basically, not the entire PT era >>> the entire Bane era.
It benefits your favourite characters... yet you still chose to complain about it.
So to shorten your post. "It doesn't make any sense, feats are exaggerated, I feel I should find a middle ground, and disregarding feats as flimsy isn't what I find to be good debating. I like using feats for comparisons."
That's nice, and I encourage you to do what you like. Just bare in mind you're being entirely subjective by going this route. My method, without using feats, disregards any personal interpretation or feelings on my end, meaning the room for error is vastly smaller.
Well yeah, hence why the Sith won. Where does this contradict that the PT Jedi are the best, by word of god?
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Given that your average Sith Lord during the Bane era was the equivalent of or less than a well trained Sith acolyte who hadn't yet earned a lightsaber, nah.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
I, obviously, will use more than just feats. I've long since been against the whole "feats-only" narrow view, which I'm pretty sure my debates with a certain SirFizzWhizz can attest to. I'm just saying to completely rule out feats when there's no statement or factual evidence like Fact File, or even reasonable speculation, to say: "Hey this guy > this guy" is not the best way to go around it.
I never disputed the fact that it's the prime of the Jedi, I'm disputing the Jedi of PT >>>>>> the Jedi of the Bane era.
Dude, you're never going to get an answer for random cross-era fights like Plo Koon vs Aryn Leneer or Ven Zallow vs Darth Talon. Ever. Not with feats anyway.
I don't disagree that feats might give a good idea of who might win but that's about it. It's basically a dick measuring contest at that point.
To quote NewGuy, Prime of the Jedi >>>>>> "Force sensitive rats"
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Yes, hence why we compare the medium they appear in and their respective accolades/achievements. Then, from that, we draw a conclusion.
Call it whatever type of contest you'd like, fact is in those types of scenarios feats should not be excluded(though obviously, neither should things like accolades or power-scaling).
Because beings that can chop through several Sith and elite soldiers << beings that get killed by Geonosians and Battle Droids...
That was hardly a fair engagement, 200 Jedi vs a droid factory which was pouring out thousands and thousands of Battle Droids in a confined area, the Sonic cannons the Geos had didn't exactly help maters.
Thousands of Battle droids >> Several Sith and Troopers.
I'm referring to two droids shooting down a Jedi in some SW comic and Ima Gun Di dieing to droids that can't even shoot correctly when his guard is down.
Also, if you wanna get technical, a battalion of droids was overwhelming Kenobi... and Raskta cut down groups of Sith, who I think we can all agree > large groups of droids.
Ah well when you said Geos and Battle Droids, I was figuring you were meaning the arena battle.
Well a battalion would be pretty overwhelming to just about anyone not ridiculously powerful and skilled.
Groups of Sith...that doesn't really give me a number, how large were these groups exactly? A Battalion of Battle Droids would be 784.
Depending how big these groups are, yeah I could see them being able to take out a Battalion.
But you're saying that Obi-Wan a single person struggled against a full Battalion, yet are saying groups of Sith are greater than a Battalion, not 1 Sith.
Last edited by Zenwolf on May 25th, 2016 at 02:06 AM
Yeah. It's not even so much that the PT is pointed out by Lucas twice to be the prime of the Jedi, and has produced the greatest top tiers ever, but rather the fact that the Jedi of Bane's day weren't capable of slaughtering the Brotherhood of Sith - an order of Sith who you could describe as inept and actually be complimenting. I don't care to look through PoD to find the actual quotes and logistics for why this era of Jedi and Sith weren't great, but it's in there.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
May 24th, 2016 03:23 PM
