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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Was Mace Windu beating Palpatine a fluke?


Was Mace Windu beating Palpatine a fluke?
Started by: The Ellimist

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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, sorry that doesn't make any sense especially when we see Sidious being arrogant and proclaiming his death to playing the victim because he was powerless to save himself. If he never threatened to kill him you'd have more weight to your case but since he switched positions it's logical to assume this was primarily due to the dire situation he realized he was in when he was unable to disarm Windu.





What you think makes sense does not equate to Facts.


Palpatine and Mace stalemating would also be reason enough to use the situation to start swaying Anakin. And that from a position of Palpatine lying on his butt no less.

You’re also forgetting Palpatine was convincing Anakin to help THE WHOLE TIME. Before the Lightning exchange began. Heck even before the Saber fight he was telepathically calling out to Anakin For aid. He’d purposefully lost his old apprentice for this new one, so you can bet he’d be using every opportunity to get Ani to join him, whether he was winning or losing.

Sidious “obviously” realised he’ll have to play victim for Anakin to really intervene and turn to the dark side.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 09:23 AM
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quanchi112
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Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
What you think makes sense does not equate to Facts.


Palpatine and Mace stalemating would also be reason enough to use the situation to start swaying Anakin. And that from a position of Palpatine lying on his butt no less.

You’re also forgetting Palpatine was convincing Anakin to help THE WHOLE TIME. Before the Lightning exchange began. Heck even before the Saber fight he was telepathically calling out to Anakin For aid. He’d purposefully lost his old apprentice for this new one, so you can bet he’d be using every opportunity to get Ani to join him, whether he was winning or losing.

Sidious “obviously” realised he’ll have to play victim for Anakin to really intervene and turn to the dark side.
The same goes for your opinion. Fact is Sidious wasn't powerful enough to save himself. Your opinion he could have doesn't equate to facts just baseless conjecture.

Why wouldn't he feign weakness right away ? Why would he scream you will die ? How does that make any sense to garner sympathy when you're obviously saying I'm going to kill Windu to please don't kill me. Your case makes no logical sense because it's a fanboys biased way of justifying Sidious losing to Windu when they can't handle that reality.

He killed Windu. He didn't spare him so don't act like anything changed. He just needed his help in that situation. Sidious values his own life over anyone else's. Sidious was trying to manipulate him and partly to his succeeeded by Windu's actions trying to kill him as well. Anakin turned into the ultimate hypocrite and lost his soul following the obviously evil Sidious. What happened to Anakin happens to you biased that's arguing for Sidious here. You're lost.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 02:05 PM
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Pessimystic
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Quanchi and Thor's arguments never go anywhere as they are both too stubborn to admit when they're wrong.

They should settle disputes with fistfights from now on, with Ant as the ref.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 03:21 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Pessimystic
Quanchi and Thor's arguments never go anywhere as they are both too stubborn to admit when they're wrong.

They should settle disputes with fistfights from now on, with Ant as the ref.
Darth Thor would throw in the towel as soon as I punched him in the nose.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 03:45 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
The same goes for your opinion. Fact is Sidious wasn't powerful enough to save himself.



That’s actually the opposite of a fact. Given he Did save himself.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 05:49 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
That’s actually the opposite of a fact. Given he Did save himself.
Anakin saved him. Watch the scene again. He attacked after Anakin ****ed him up.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 06:23 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin saved him. Watch the scene again. He attacked after Anakin ****ed him up.



And you still have Zero proof that he “Needed” Anakin to save him.

Btw in both the Script AND the Novel, Windu also asks Anakin for help.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 07:39 PM
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samappo
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Yeah, plus Sidious NEEDED Anakin to do something to Windu, or else it'd be the chancellor outright killing a Jedi Master in front of his eyes. Sidious needed Anakin to make that step. It's obvious.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 10:23 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by samappo
Yeah, plus Sidious NEEDED Anakin to do something to Windu, or else it'd be the chancellor outright killing a Jedi Master in front of his eyes. Sidious needed Anakin to make that step. It's obvious.




thumb up

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 10:31 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
And you still have Zero proof that he “Needed” Anakin to save him.

Btw in both the Script AND the Novel, Windu also asks Anakin for help.
He is saying for him not to listen to him. He didn't want Anakin there. He was going to strike him down and Anakin intervened. Your denial of what actually happened shows your cult like devotion to Sidious. Try to be objective.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 10:58 PM
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samappo
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I feel so sorry for you ...


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The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 10:59 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by samappo
I feel so sorry for you ...
Most cult followers think just like you unable to grasp the truth when it's right in front of you. Your justifications are sad and biased.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 11:01 PM
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relentless1
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the biggest clue pointing to Sidious throwing the fight is that he needed a do or die situation for Anakin to choose right then and there to betray the Jedi; everything Plapatine had done up until that point had led Anakin to this tough decision that he KNEW Anakin would make in favour of the Chancellor. The Jedi were phucked the minute Yoda told Anakin to let go of those he fears to lose and lest not forget that one rule of joining the Sith is making an intense personal sacrifice, like a betrayal for instance... Dooku had to do it as well to prove his loyalty by murdering Sifo Dyas

Sidious had the situation well in control, or is it any coincidence that Anakin just so happened to walk in at the exact moment that Windu had a blade to Palpatines throat?? Sidious played the weak old man perfectly and both Windu and Anakin took the bait.

Old Post Jan 4th, 2018 01:02 AM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by relentless1
the biggest clue pointing to Sidious throwing the fight is that he needed a do or die situation for Anakin to choose right then and there to betray the Jedi; everything Plapatine had done up until that point had led Anakin to this tough decision that he KNEW Anakin would make in favour of the Chancellor. The Jedi were phucked the minute Yoda told Anakin to let go of those he fears to lose and lest not forget that one rule of joining the Sith is making an intense personal sacrifice, like a betrayal for instance... Dooku had to do it as well to prove his loyalty by murdering Sifo Dyas

Sidious had the situation well in control, or is it any coincidence that Anakin just so happened to walk in at the exact moment that Windu had a blade to Palpatines throat?? Sidious played the weak old man perfectly and both Windu and Anakin took the bait.
No, he didn't need a do or die situation he just realized he had to use the situation to his advantage. Windu's actions abandoning the Jedi order's way also confused the retarded Anakin in trying to kill a downed opponent. Sidious knew to use his fear of Padme's death and the false premise only through Sidious could they save her.

Yoda is the epitome of failure so he'd **** up a one car parade somehow. That's just what happened. Sidious screamed, you shall die to Windu. Only after he relished his attacks were not overpowering Windu did he feign weakness. Anakin was breaking down the entire film and it was easy for Sidious to seize the moment. He tried to kill Windu throughout their entire duel. For ****s sake watch him swing his lightsaber at him.

laughing out loud


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2018 01:19 AM
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relentless1
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lol he had Windu at sword point dead to rights as they were leaving his chambers and he didn't take the strike because he was waiting for Anakin to arrive seen here at 1:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ESOrF_u1hg&t=77s

Last edited by relentless1 on Jan 4th, 2018 at 09:20 AM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2018 09:18 AM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by relentless1
lol he had Windu at sword point dead to rights as they were leaving his chambers and he didn't take the strike because he was waiting for Anakin to arrive seen here at 1:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ESOrF_u1hg&t=77s
Windu would have defended himself. Speculative on your end to assume otherwise but besides that he swing many times at Windu and tried to kill him. Your mind isn't proof it's just your silly justifications as to why Sidious lost.


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2018 01:49 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Darth Sidious throwing the fight 100% is stupid.

Also there has been a misunderstanding of Vaapad. Windu didn't boost his Force strength with Palpatine's Force strength; Windu just used Palpatine's darkness(his emotions) to unleash his own Force strength that resides in his very being.
Vappad is the reverse of Juyo. Instead of using your own darkness(emotions), you use your enemy's darkness against them.

Palpatine lost the fight legitimately. But, quanchi112, Palpatine would have fought back if it wasn't for Anakin's interference. He simply took advantage of the situation when Anakin appeared; but he did lose the fight at that moment.
If he would have defeated Windu without Anakin's interference, we might never know.
Probably, Sidious would have won. But he lost the fight there fair and square, definitely.


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Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 4th, 2018 at 11:46 PM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2018 11:44 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by relentless1
lol he had Windu at sword point dead to rights as they were leaving his chambers and he didn't take the strike because he was waiting for Anakin to arrive seen here at 1:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ESOrF_u1hg&t=77s


Palpatine was just lucky; as you see in the cut scene; Windu's style is an aggressive one; and a Vaapad user's body is always exposed to swift attacks, and it's harder to guard yourself. And it happens to him that he fights a Sith Lord in his own right. He was definitely not prepared to fight Palpatine.


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Jeth: "Now I understand why the dark side has continued to fill this city. King Ommin has been practicing Sith magic—that he learned from you!"
―Freedon Nadd

Old Post Jan 4th, 2018 11:50 PM
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samappo
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The novel specifically states that Windu draws from Sidious' dark side amp. What allows Windu to disarm Sidious is a shatterpoint, which is actually due to Anakin being in the vicinity, which is Sidious' trust in Anakin. Trust that Anakin will play into his trap.


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Old Post Jan 5th, 2018 12:09 AM
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quanchi112
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Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Darth Sidious throwing the fight 100% is stupid.

Also there has been a misunderstanding of Vaapad. Windu didn't boost his Force strength with Palpatine's Force strength; Windu just used Palpatine's darkness(his emotions) to unleash his own Force strength that resides in his very being.
Vappad is the reverse of Juyo. Instead of using your own darkness(emotions), you use your enemy's darkness against them.

Palpatine lost the fight legitimately. But, quanchi112, Palpatine would have fought back if it wasn't for Anakin's interference. He simply took advantage of the situation when Anakin appeared; but he did lose the fight at that moment.
If he would have defeated Windu without Anakin's interference, we might never know.
Probably, Sidious would have won. But he lost the fight there fair and square, definitely.
I disagree because he already tried but failed. But either way Sidious was legitimately disarmed and at Windu's mercy. This is something that is very tough for the Sidious fanatics to swallow.


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Old Post Jan 5th, 2018 12:19 AM
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