No mention was EVER made of OK. I said put down. Your own scannshows Ted's head barely above level with his knee and Batman's torso after one blow. Since Ted cant fly the only way frombthere is down, and as stated Ted couldnt anticipate or dodge. Something Bruce did in the previous 3 attacks of Teds with only "partly" having his measure.
Actually I can show scans that show pre COIE Ted was too level, in fact a few from All Star flat out state above Bruce.
are you serious? daredevil defeated the freaking bruiser in a cage fight. beat up king pin in close quarters. only those 2 take a dump on wildcats fights. specially the one where killer croc the skilless brick grabs wildcat and crack his ribs while wildcat is helpless. daredevil is much more skilled than him its not funny.
you might not want to talk about unskilled bricks *cough* Mr Hyde *cough**cough* tombstone*cough*. It's easy to lowball, but the fact of the matter is that wildcat is a peer of some of the best street level characters in the business. He has had good fights with batman on more than one occasion. That alone is enough to say that he's capable of beating Matt in a fight. Do I think that he wins? No, I think that he pulls maybe 3-4/10. Do I think that he's skilled enough to be considered a peer? Hell yeah.
an argument was brought that wildcat is on some complete different level when it comes to cage fighting because its his home. an example was brought that even in his supposed kingdome, "the cage" he has not very good showings. what did i tell you in previous posts? read the post, stop for a moment and think to yourself, what i sthe meaning of the post, what was that post meant to deliver. then decide if you like to jump the wagon or not. the croc example was to portray he is not something unique in cage fights. then i brought examples for daredevil in cage fights. daredevil is indeed more skilled than wildcat based on overall feats. throwing around random "but he fought batman" wont do the trick. joker fought batman and in some cases actually was kicking his ass H2H. dont use ABC please. wildcat is skilled and a respected tough fighter. however he is not as skilled as daredevil there is a gap. wildcat is a brawler with ring skills.
oh yead and just for the heck of it. you are comparing killer croc to mister hyde and tombstone? you know who can actually fight and not getting dominated by everyone on the planet?
I'm tired of you stating here and the other thread that Croc was beating a helpless Wildcat. This is even way worse than Beatboks overstated and wrong claims. In the entire fight shown below Killer Croc didn't even get one hit in. Despite having help from another combatant that grab Wildcat from behind, Ted dominated and destroyed Croc in 3 quick and effortless hits.
I'm sure you are pretty embarrassed now. I can't even take you serious after claiming that Wildcat was helpless against Croc.
lol For Wildcat entire superhero career, he has fought metahumans. People who should be way stronger, faster, or more powerful than him, but Wildcat usually comes out on top especially in the ring or in a street fight.
Just one example vs Solomon Grundy (the Green Lantern threat version)
Alan says that he can't really hurt Grundy but Wildcat stops him.
Wait you go from arguing that in a ring or cage Wildcat is no threat to Batman, but now you claim to have evidence that a some point Wildcat was at Batman level or even better. lol I can't even ...
I don't know about that, Osiris probably doesn't feel the same way about croc. He's also given bane several good fights in the past as well as occasionally dominating batman in h2h.
they've both beaten or tagged Matt before.
Exactly what claims have I made that were overstated and wrong?? Your own scan of the Batman Wildcat mini completely support everything I said about it.
Lets go thru those scans i total
First scan no action they stand at opposite sides of the cage whoop di do.
Second scan Ted punches Bruce full page panel.
Then bruce grapples ted and pushes him into the cage wall.
Ted kicks him off then he misses and misses again (dodged by Bruce).
Then we have Bruce telling Ted he knows he's Wildcat and trying to reason with him.
So lets look at this carefully every part of the fight prior to Bruce telling Ted who he is we so absolutley no attack launched by Bruce. A grapple isnt an attack its a restraint. Clear evidence that the Bruce was holding back the whole time. As soon as Bruce actually TRIES to attack Ted has no answer for it and is struck with such efficiency that it breaks the mask and has Ted completely horizontal. The fact that Ted cant dodge an attack that Bruce actually telegraphed to him by TELLING HIM he was going to knock his mask or his head off,shows with absolute clarity that Bruce is quite a bit above Ted in skill.
How anyone can claim that this is a showing that puts WC on Bruces level is beyond me. We even have from Ted's own mouth that Batman would have to LET HIM do it for Ted to have this easy a time with him. Again confirming that Bruce was holding back.
Nothing over stated by me at all. You on the other hand try to make it out that so much fight has gone down B4 Bruce works out who Ted is. One landed punch, a grapple and counter and two missed/dodged attacks. Not much at all is it.
Now lets look at the back story.
Both Ted and Bruce followed the trail of kidnapped athletes forced to fight in the cage ring fights. Tell me please how likely is it that Bruce is going to give someone he knows to be victum his best fight ???? On the other side of the coin we have Ted a pro fighter who has gone into the ring to professionally fight very good and close friends and gave it everything he had.
The other fight as i said is pre COIE and a totally different pair of characters. Prw crisis Batman was nowhere near as good as post in H2H. You try to counter claim that Ted was also lower pre COIE but this is a bald faced lie. One easily proven by the pre crisis history between the two.
Bold and the brave 97 an Amnesiac Ted who doesnt even remember who he is fights as an equal of Batman.
B&B 110 the two team up against a corporate organisation that Ted was actually a board member of (proof of JUST how different the versions are from current) and had stolen the breakthrus of a scientist and killed to protect that fact.
Then we have brave and bold 118 (the one yourr scans are from). Your claim that Ted is Bruce's equal in that issue simplyisnt supported by the comic. The reason Ted is even i the story is because he gives an exhibition match at a prison. The guy he fights is a joker goon who once fought him for a title bout ("dubik" or something like that). This Goon was giving Ted a pretty hard time in the ring. The same guy was taken easily by Batman. The dog being threatened in your scans had the cure to a deadly virus that had infected most of the prisoners. So Bruce had to play along. I've already shown that Joker knew Bruce was holding back , and that Bruce was surprised Ted hit him so hard (with Ted stating no point holding back and clearly shows Bruce still was).
Your claim that Ted wasnt as good as post COIE is contradicted by the fact it states on panel when Ted fights E2 Comissioner Bruce Wayne in All star Comics that Ted is the Superior fighter and that Bruce never had a chance. E1 Batman was above E2 but Ted was actually a higherrated combatant than post crisis.
FTR I'm a JSA fan and hate post COIE Batman (was a fan of the pre crisis Bat when he was human and lost occasionally and was a character who simply persevered and pushed thru it). So if there was actually a case to be made for Ted being Bruce's equal I'd be on board. There isn't.
As for the Wildcat Grundy fight. So the F what. Grundy is an elemental who absorbs energy. Particularly magic, alan using his ring against Grundy is oike someone fighting Superman on the sun. Grundy NEVER does well against street levelers because he isnt at high levels. Also Grundy is a stupid and mindless brute, sinc3 all ted did was use grundy's own momentum to run him into something not much of a showing.
Last edited by beatboks on Sep 22nd, 2016 at 11:40 AM
if there is something i learned is that when the person you argue is starting to use smilies, trash talk or cinical forms in his argument, that means he is left with less and less credible material. which seems to be the case with you as well. you simply post another fight between them and trying to act like you dont know what am i talking about. i am talking about this scene in the cage fight.
by showing wildcat beating up some version of grandy, who is known to be a huge jobber and have different incarnations, what is your point? you stated wildcat fought faster, stronger and more powerful opponents than him. so did daredevil by far. but first, i would like you to post the things you said. post fights of wildcat going up against the things you stated. only then i will crush your strawman with daredevil feats. until then there is nothing to crush. dont you feel now embarracced when i shoved your face into the scan and facts?
stop using strawman BS that you dont believe in yourself. croc has 0 fighting abilities. harvey dent AKA two faces chocked him out easily without him knowing what to do. everybody and their grandma beat croc because he has 0 skills.
More Your scan shows Croc beating (and ultimately killing) Hector Ramierez a former student of the real Wildcat who used Ted's costume as a sign of respect to him. If you actually read the scans I posted you would have saved yourself this further embarrassment. Wildcat clearly stated that to Croc who was surprised to see him alive.
So to answer your question, no I am not "embarracced." But I am embarrass for you, and I am still waiting for you "to shove my face into the scan and facts." Seems like I am the one doing the shoveling here.
You mentioned DD fights vs Bruiser, Tombstone, and Mr Hyde. It should be obvious that why I posted the Ted vs Grundy fight. Ted beat bricks all the time big deal.
Also its not my job to educate you about Wildcat. If you don't know much about a character, then why would you even put yourself in the discussion. I mean Ted's whole career is these type of brawls, its not hard to find that out.
lol I doubt you would be crushing anything given your inability to see the clear context of scans and not just google search for images that appear relevant.
Nice wall of text of a concession, and most of these points have already been addressed. So I'll let the actual proof speak for itself. I still have all 3 issues of the Batman/Wildcat mini of my hard drive.
The only response I need to that essay is this: Wildcat does not have to be at Bruce's level to beat Daredevil in a close quarters strictly h2h match. The kind of fight that Ted has excel at his entire career.
Lol i was checking your knowledge of wildcat and if you really aware of the story or not. wanted to see how well you know the character you are trying to debate for.
you have to be joking if you compare a random version of solomon grandy, who is known to have versions that get beat up by batman and other streets, and freakin bruiser. i dont think you know who bruiser is. he is not a brick. he is a cage fighter/assassin with super human abilities. kaine had trouble with this guy. mr hyde and tombstone that you mentiones are far from being just bricks. daredevil took them out with 1 nerve strike. daredevil also beat psylocke, black panther, shang chi, taskmaster, matched iron fist, beat scrossboned who gives cap trouble, 1 shotted gorgon atc atc. i got plenty but can you put wildcat on that level? what has wildcat done? oh right he fought batman. give me a freakin break. he is not on the level of daredevil. as far as skills i could give him punisher skills. matt outskills punisher and we all know that
Ha ha, I said it was from All Star Comics. That's the GA and SA title teh JSA were in. It was set on Earth 2 and never once featured ANY earth 1 JLA member or cross over (they happened in other titles).
I said Bruce, not Batman, because on Earth 2 Batman had retired and Bruce wayne had taken over as Commissioner of Gotham.
In response to my stating that Pre COIE Bruce was lower down the chain than post you made a fallacious and completely incarcerate statement that Ted was also lower (inferring that he was MUCH lower). I stated that wasn't so. The fact is that pre COIE Ted Grant whether it was E1 or the E2 version was higher ranked as a combatant than post Crisis was.
Wildcat pre Crisis was easily top 20 DCU combatant. Post coie he'd be lucky to make the top 50.
I wish I could say this is lowballing, Unfortunately with the crappy treaetment WC has received post COIE, this is a good percentage of his appearances. So NO he defintely isn't up the food chain from where he was pre COIE, he's moved down considerably.
Fact 2 Bruce expected the cavalry any minute from the outset. http://static6.comicvine.com/upload...32+-+page+8.jpg
He knew Oracle could track his location once the feed started and that Robin would be enroute ( as per the panels taking up space in your "5 PAGES of fight ha ha")