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Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Orion is just a red-headed foster child whose "dad" should take him to the cosmic woodshed.

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Originally posted by Delta1938
For f uck's sake, take a few junior high English classes and learn how to use paragraphs.

I see I am making the mistake of giving your intelligence and reading comprehension too much credit. For this, I apologize.

First, you obviously don't understand one bit my argument. I'm not scaling the way you are. Darkseid explicitly moved faster than Byrne era Superman could even see, and it is this era of his speed I'm using(not later). Clark says this. This is not remotely the same as what you're arguing. When Orion fought Darkseid, the fight was clearly at super speed. So, this is not what you're arguing.

You on the other hand are making the assumption that because Wonder Woman hit Superman thar means her speed is on par. She tagged him when he wasn't taking her seriously in FOR TOMORROW and still he was much faster than her. I could easily point to A LEAGUE OF ONE how once Superman wasn't getting cheap shot he utterly dominated Wonder Woman in speed. Which actually, there wasn't anything indicating speed there. But if I were to use your standards? He embarrassed her casually. So much for her speed and skill together.

So ****ing what on Power Girl? The whole point was a skill feat. Did you read the dialogue or like carter can only look at the pretty pictures? The emphasis on skill coupled with Wonder Woman's statements on PG's speed while literally getting blitzed shows the writer intent that Power Girl was faster but Wonder Woman was able to use skill to compensate. But why are you even arguing this? Superman is faster than Power Girl even if we go with your completely wrong interpretation and has left Power Girl frozen by comparison.

So you're trying to argue Cheetah being taught to be faster than before means she was that fast before Zoom "taught her true power?" Are you trying to use this retroactively?

I don't see how one actual example cited and you just saying random Blitz blah blah blah proves anything, especially when it's a circular argument. Prove that Wonder Woman could keep up with Flash and Superman due to being fast enough, instead of they just weren't going too fast. I showed her being slower than Jesse Quick. Jesse offers to slow down but WW says she's cheating. Yet you think she's actually in Flash's class of speed when she's slower than to my knowledge the slowest Flash Family member?

How about where Superman and Barry left Wonder Woman in their dust and she looked to be a statue in comparison? We have that, and Superman also moving so fast she didn't see him leave and return. But because she ran invisible looking for white Martians and some unspecified helping Blitzes means she's as fast? You are assuming that she could keep up, not they slowed down for her.

And I'll have to look for it on shattered god, remember a normal person avoiding them.

And seriously. Use paragraphs. Be an adult.

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Originally posted by Delta1938
No. You're just a liar. Cry more.

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Originally posted by light889
You said Orion is faster then procceded to scale his speed from SM.

For Tomorrow is not even a fight between them. League of One again nmot a real fight. WW only wanted to slow him down a bit to go according to her plan. She fought a bloodlusted SM in The Witch is Back and in Sacrifice. Both times she wasn't fighting with all she got with the intention to kill while he was. He used his speed in both along with his other powers. And WW was still fast enough to keep up in combat.

Powergirl was not faster than WW. Diana blitzed her from Canada while PG was in The US. So both showed supoer speed. And the dialogue of the comic clearly proves WW is not even fighting seriously most of the fight, as she didn't want to fight PG. The writer herself has confirmed this as well.


No. It means Cheetah didn't get a temporary upgrade by Zoom. He clearly said he didn't give her extra speed. He helped her to train herself and get rid off her mental block, which in return helped her to increase her super speed naturally. That's why she was still shown and stated to be faster than before after the arc with zoom. When she was too fast for Donna and Supergirl to perceive. When she was yet again compared to Flash as one of the fastest characters along with him. And even before she increased her own speed. Cheetah was already fast enough to blitz Superman. The same issue where he compared Cheetah's striking force to that of Diana and Shazam.

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Originally posted by carver9
The interview I posted was outright common sense that was being denied by KMC turds that was obviously shown in the comic. Pak didn't mention he destroyed a weak planet or a planet that's matter was different than other planets. He said it was about time for Hulk to destroy A planet. Your scan doesn't go with the interview since nothing on panel was shown of Superman being weakened. Pak confirmed on multiple occasions that Hulk destroy a planet.

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Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did the interview confirm it was through pure strength?

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Originally posted by JBL
I rest my case. Low-balling as ever.

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Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So no proof whatsoever. Feel free to run, as per usual

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Originally posted by JBL
This is Classic. How come when people lied and said superman destroyed a multiverse with a punch, why didn't you ask them for proof? When someone on here said superman was still exhausted when flying through those mini suns, how come you didn't ask for proof? How come when people lied about superman taking a certain blast point blank, how come you didn't ask for proof? But the minute Hulk, Gladiator or Sentry is said to have done something, you want proof on top of low-balling?

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Originally posted by carver9
The interview I posted was outright common sense that was being denied by KMC turds that was obviously shown in the comic. Pak didn't mention he destroyed a weak planet or a planet that's matter was different than other planets. He said it was about time for Hulk to destroy A planet. Your scan doesn't go with the interview since nothing on panel was shown of Superman being weakened. Pak confirmed on multiple occasions that Hulk destroy a planet.

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Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Very simple.

Because Carv was asking about a recent Supergirl feat, so I am merely showing him the error of his 'logic'. There is context to my request, which I guess you missed (as per usual).

Happy to educate you, though.

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Originally posted by JBL
Thanks for once again proving my point.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
Phil Jiminez confirmed Superman was weakened there by Circe's magic.

Superman blitzed Legion of Doom, Cheetah included lol.

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Originally posted by light889
I searched what you said. He said SM's super hearing was not as effective because of Circe's magic. Not that his speed was weakened, or that his reflexes were weakened. Cheetah still dodged his HV at blanbk point range and blitzed him again after the first surprise attack. And like i said before. This was when Cheetah wasn't as fast as Cheetah later became. And let me point out that i am talking about SM. Only because another person basically seems to be scaling Orion's speed to him. Even though i have never seen anything to suggest Orion is on par with SM in speed.

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Just as a behind the scenes note, I remember how difficult it was to even get that scene in the book. It was an enormous hurdle to convince the editors of the notion that the Cheetah , even god-powered, fast enough to fight Wonder Woman, and magical in nature, could sneak up on Superman and tackle him. I remember having to layer in Circe's magic sphere to help deaden Superman's senses and powers even further, and it was understood that this was a one time deal. They basically held their nose at the idea and let me do it, although I think my own editor at the time understood what such an attack could do for Cheetah, in terms of raising the character's viability as a high-level villain.
For what it's worth, I think it helped that it was a male villain. I don't think the editors ever would have approved of a successful attack on Superman if it was the Barbara Minerva Cheetah , or another female version of her.
Just my memories on the topic.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
No, that's not what he said.



He said the sphere deadened his powers too.