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Iron Fist vs. Midnighter
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Sharivan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought your argument would go like this.


You didn't really address the last part of my post.

quote:
No, he doesn't vocalise it.


He clearly vocalizes in the white text bubbles but I see your point in regards to the blue text bubbles.

quote:
First scan is just a text bubble, but more importantly, the second scan shows him communicating via telepathy to open the door in space (where sound does not travel, and nobody can hear you say door). A gift from the Engineer, and standard equipment for all Authority members:
(please log in to view the image)


Alright then.

That seems to be pretty clear. I have no idea why he vocalizes it anyway when he can. That seems to be kind of a bad idea. As that would let your opponent know something's up.

quote:
As evidenced by the text bubble with blue bubbles on it. Second to last panel, second scan; posted here again:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/...ghter12-016.jpg


Yeah, I see it.

quote:
As for pushing? My first scan showed the doors opening ON the multiple opponents, sending them away. No pushing required. Posted here again:
http://static4.comicvine.com/upload...0/3085733-2.png


I don't see them going through those Doors that quickly, and they have enough time to chat before they're taken. The ones with the golden highlight?

That would be plenty of time for Iron Fist to jump out of the way or use an Iron Fist.

quote:
In summary: he can summon doors by thinking, and he can open them on opponents (highlighting them in an orange yellow aura). It is usually shown as a rectangular portal, this is true, but it can also be a 'cut-and-paste' BFR.


The former seems kind of slow, and the latter is clearly visible. It would easy for Danny take care of that one. As for the former it may be more difficult but I doubt Danny is going to stand still as something around or under him is glowing for no reason.

Last edited by Sharivan on Aug 22nd, 2016 at 06:13 AM

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:06 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sharivan
All the instances you provided here shoe Midnighter having to vocalize it, and Door opening near them. At which point he has to force them inside somehow by either pushing them or kicking them.


That is show not shoe.

Ah, typos.

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:18 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sharivan
You didn't really address the last part of my post.

I don't see them going through those Doors that quickly, and they have enough time to chat before they're taken. The ones with the golden highlight?

That would be plenty of time for Iron Fist to jump out of the way or use an Iron Fist.

The former seems kind of slow, and the latter is clearly visible. It would easy for Danny take care of that one. As for the former it may be more difficult but Id doubt Danny is going to stand still as something around or under him is glowing for no reason.


Oh, I'm talking about the 2nd panel here:
http://static4.comicvine.com/upload...0/3085733-2.png
One guy's hand can be seen, outlined in yellow/orange. 2nd guy's waist is already disappearing, etc etc. They're being sent away. In mid-battle. Nothing Danny can do, because the whole point about doors is that they are EVERYWHERE at once, within 'our' dimension, as it were. He can't evade it, because he is surrounded by it. You almost have to think in higher dimensions to understand it. Jumping around doesn't work, because you're being cut and pasted from one location to the other.

As to the vocalisation/rectangular portals? Guess it looks cooler, I suppose.


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Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:22 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, I'm talking about the 2nd panel here:
http://static4.comicvine.com/upload...0/3085733-2.png
One guy's hand can be seen, outlined in yellow/orange. 2nd guy's waist is already disappearing, etc etc. They're being sent away. In mid-battle. Nothing Danny can do, because the whole point about doors is that they are EVERYWHERE at once, within 'our' dimension, as it were. He can't evade it, because he is surrounded by it. You almost have to think in higher dimensions to understand it. Jumping around doesn't work, because you're being cut and pasted from one location to the other.

As to the vocalisation/rectangular portals? Guess it looks cooler, I suppose.


Going from that it seems to ensnare them in this variation of Door. However, once again going from everybody else there it takes a while to completely ensnare you. In which case Danny can simply use his chi to break out of it. As we already know its effects on interdimensional portals causes them to explode. If it's literally all around his body I imagine any significant amount of chi here would set it off. In which case that may disorient him but it would solve the problem of getting ejected into outer space.

Yeah, probably the coolness factor.

At any rate what I already said here, and the fact he can use his ghost to substitute his body.

Plus, from what I have posted Danny hits harder and can take more punishment. I want to kinda argue he is faster but I definitely think someone would try to bring up Midnighter's fights against other characters.

Since that seems to be the song and dance with these things. You know how I feel about fights in comic books. Only if their individual showings justify it, and all that.

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:40 AM
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So midnighter wins.


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Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:41 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
So midnighter wins.


Not really no.

As what I addressed there makes clear. If Door is all around Danny any of amount of chi would probably set it off, and he is explosion proof anyway so...

That, and the rest there.

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:44 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sharivan
Going from that it seems to ensnare them in this variation of Door. However, once again going from everybody else there it takes a while to completely ensnare you. In which case Danny can simply use his chi to break out of it. As we already know its effects on interdimensional portals causes them to explode. If it's literally all around his body I imagine any significant amount of chi here would set it off. In which case that may disorient him but it would solve the problem of getting ejected into outer space.

Yeah, probably the coolness factor.

At any rate what I already said here, and the fact he can use his ghost to substitute his body.

Plus, from what I have posted Danny hits harder and can take more punishment. I want to kinda argue he is faster but I definitely think someone would try to bring up Midnighter's fights against other characters.

Since that seems to be the song and dance with these things. You know how I feel about fights in comic books. Only if their individual showings justify it, and all that.


Sure, and it then descends into low-balling/high-balling.

Hence, my use of doors. As seen, in some cases some of the opponents were already completely highlighted by doors. A single target like Danny? Should be easy enough. He COULD sub himself, but that wouldn't be his usual tactic.

Hitting harder/taking more punishment? Sure. Midnighter can see that, and he is a cheating sneaky bastard. A fair fight is for other people - if he can win by BFR, he will BFR. Or, chop in half or whatever.

For the chi to set off the door, you'd have to show that kind of energy (or magnitude) setting off doors in the Wildstorm universe. Which I highly doubt.

IOW, just because Danny's chi caused a portal to explode, =/= it exploding ALL portals. Or in this case, the Carrier's portals.


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Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:47 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sharivan
Not really no.

As what I addressed there makes clear. If Door is all around Danny any of amount of chi would probably set it off, and he is explosion proof anyway so...

That, and the rest there.

Do Midnighter wins? Good.


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Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:51 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sure, and it then descends into low-balling/high-balling.

Hence, my use of doors. As seen, in some cases some of the opponents were already completely highlighted by doors. A single target like Danny? Should be easy enough. He COULD sub himself, but that wouldn't be his usual tactic.

Hitting harder/taking more punishment? Sure. Midnighter can see that, and he is a cheating sneaky bastard. A fair fight is for other people - if he can win by BFR, he will BFR. Or, chop in half or whatever.

For the chi to set off the door, you'd have to show that kind of energy (or magnitude) setting off doors in the Wildstorm universe. Which I highly doubt.

IOW, just because Danny's chi caused a portal to explode, =/= it exploding ALL portals. Or in this case, the Carrier's portals.


It was in the scene, and it states the amount of energy disrupted was so immense it couldn't be measured by conventional means. It was quote-on-quote "incalculable." That's kind of unspecific. The resulting explosion is compared to a baby nuke, and the portal reaches into other dimensions.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/293...e_-_15.jpg.html

What kind of energy are we talking about for Carrier's portals? Does it have any instances of dealing with things that disrupt interdimensional portals?

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 06:58 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sharivan
It was in the scene, and it states the amount of energy disrupted was so immense it couldn't be measured by conventional means. It was quote-on-quote "incalculable." That's kind of unspecific. The resulting explosion is compared to a baby nuke, and the portal reaches into other dimensions.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/293...e_-_15.jpg.html

What kind of energy are we talking about for Carrier's portals? Does it have any instances of dealing with things that disrupt interdimensional portals?

It has been opened pretty close to the sun before. Time-travel, other dimensions, it works by using the Bleed.

(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)

At those distances, it's rather larger than a baby nuke. To my knowledge, however, no one has exploded mid transport - because no one has been able to do so. It's instantaneous. My scans also show an overloaded Apollo, so powerful he's actually dying from the strain, travelling through without any problems.

Someone else may be better placed to have the scans, though.


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Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 07:13 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It has been opened pretty close to the sun before. Time-travel, other dimensions, it works by using the Bleed.


The first one isn't really that impressive unless it was inside of the sun too. That's not what I am really talking about either. The sun isn't something esoteric that can destroy interdimensional portals.

quote:
(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)
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At those distances, it's rather larger than a baby nuke.


That's not what this is about. The interdimensional portal itself exploded as a result of Danny punching it.

It wasn't near it. It was it.

Just being near the sun isn't impressive either. The surface is nowhere near as hot as the core for example.

Nukes can reach tens of millions of degrees.

quote:
To my knowledge, however, no one has exploded mid transport - because no one has been able to do so. It's instantaneous. My scans also show an overloaded Apollo, so powerful he's actually dying from the strain, travelling through without any problems.


Does Apollo have a history of fooling around with space and time with his powers?

quote:
Someone else may be better placed to have the scans, though.


Okay.

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 07:39 AM
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Regardless: Destroying one portal...it isn't as if Mids can't order more. Whilst Danny is disorientated.


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Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 08:02 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Regardless: Destroying one portal...it isn't as if Mids can't order more. Whilst Danny is disorientated.


If he is not caught in the explosions himself, and what does Midnighter have against ghosts? While we're at there's AOE to consider as some of Danny's chi blasts can take out whole loads of cyborb ninjas out at once.

If Midnighter starts opening them up everywhere there are going to be explosions all over the place.

Which Danny has a better chance at surviving thanks to his energy absorption. As seen with Radion, and with Master Khan.

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 08:09 AM
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Wait, does Dannyopen fights spamming ghosts etc? And how will he achieve this when all Mids has to do is think 'door'? Which completely and instantly encases Danny, with any ensuing explosion being shunted away?


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Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 08:16 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, does Dannyopen fights spamming ghosts etc? And how will he achieve this when all Mids has to do is think 'door'? Which completely and instantly encases Danny, with any ensuing explosion being shunted away?


I'll just repeat what I said earlier.

I am referring to Iron Fist being able to transform back into a human being (sort of) after being reduced to a ghost, and giving said ghost substance again after bridging the dimensional gap in the afterlife.

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #23

http://i.imgur.com/fWatTco.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lcVDjfn.jpg

Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #24

http://i.imgur.com/Bhcpmeo.png
http://i.imgur.com/xfpa0vX.jpg

It's only after this that he makes a complete resurrection though.

http://i.imgur.com/Ypzaeec.jpg

So, it's more like using his ghost to substitute his body.

As for the explosion it would be the Door itself exploding not Danny. So, how exactly is the Door going to contain itself?

There's nothing going to be transported if Danny is already using chi. Assuming that he starts the fight off charging his Iron Fist or something. That or a chi blast. Maybe fireballs. Who knows.

If the Door manages to send him away before he can use chi maybe it can but otherwise the Door itself would be unstable.

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 08:24 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, I'm talking about the 2nd panel here:
http://static4.comicvine.com/upload...0/3085733-2.png
One guy's hand can be seen, outlined in yellow/orange. 2nd guy's waist is already disappearing, etc etc. They're being sent away. In mid-battle. Nothing Danny can do, because the whole point about doors is that they are EVERYWHERE at once, within 'our' dimension, as it were. He can't evade it, because he is surrounded by it. You almost have to think in higher dimensions to understand it. Jumping around doesn't work, because you're being cut and pasted from one location to the other.

As to the vocalisation/rectangular portals? Guess it looks cooler, I suppose.


Midnighter isn't at the origin of that feat.

It's the Doctor whom used the power of Jenny Quantum with the doors who did it.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...essage-13865543

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 10:34 AM
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Never said it was Midnighter...he cannot door, lol.


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Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 10:38 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Never said it was Midnighter...he cannot door, lol.


Well, he can ask the Carrier to make a door thanks to their mechanical telepathic link but anyway with Midnighter physical stats, combat experience and battle computer Danny is toasted.

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 10:41 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Midnighter isn't at the origin of that feat.

It's the Doctor whom used the power of Jenny Quantum with the doors who did it.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...essage-13865543


quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Well, he can ask the Carrier to make a door thanks to their mechanical telepathic link but anyway with Midnighter physical stats, combat experience and battle computer Danny is toasted.


So it's literally not something Midnighter can do on his own and requires outside help from someone not in this match.

Alright then, Danny baby shakes.

Old Post Aug 22nd, 2016 11:45 AM
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Yep.

The doors comes from the Carrier itself.

However both versions of Midnighter stomps Danny.


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