Dick also performed well in the actual fight especially considering that Midnighter ambushed him from the back in the beginning, and prepped for the encounter. Grayson 6
But we don't know if its impressive b/c we don't know if Batman just tripped on his cape and fell and Jason finding him like that pull out a gun. But seriously we don't know if Bruce was holding back trying to reach Jason like he has done before or what the circumstances were.
What we do know is that Bruce and Dick had a fight so intense that a motorcycle was 1-shotted, and Bruce gave up before Dick. So Dick's New 52 fight with Bruce is much more impressive than Jason's off panel advantage.
Why would you post that scan? Midnighter didn't want to kill Grayson and he NEVER defeated him in HTH. Never.
Grayson also had Spyral tech enhancements that messed with Midnighter's senses. He would have went down, if it weren't for that, and Grayson admitted as much.
BTW, Grayson owning Grifter isn't all that impressive, considering that he has no HTH skills to speak of and he didn't use the fullest of his TP/TK abilities.
So Jason with upgraded armor did marginally better against a holding back Cassandra Cain than Dick w/out Nightwing armor and gear. To suggest this combined with an off panel advantage over Batman puts the Red Hood above Nightwing is inaccurate.
Grayson #18, Dick handily controlled the fight against Bronze Tiger. No it wasn't weretiger but it was still New 52 BT and still impressive. When has BT not been able to even get one strike in a fight? His only offense was one hold that Dick quickly countered and flipped him.
I wasn't even going for Dick really impressive stealth feats. I was just showing how using stealth to move unnoticed isn't something that only Jason can do. Dick being doing that even from a teenager, most of the former bat sidekicks have impressive feats of stealth. Again I failed to see how that put Jason above Dick, when pre-52 Dick slipped away from Superman.
BTW, slipping away from Superman >>> slipping away from Supergirl.
I never said Grayson defeated him. I said Grayson owned him knocking him to the ground w/baby in other hand, and performed well against Mids in the actual fight. I also never said that Mid was trying to kill Grayson.
So its alright for Red Hood to use alien tech and All Caste gear, but Dick using Spyral tech too his advantage is a negative?
By the way when Bruce got serious on Jason (in their only full on panel fight) he put him down long enough for a forum victory. Then he clearly allowed Jason three free shots and Jason still couldn't put him down.
Only Dick sneaking away from Superman is Pre-Flashpoint.
Who knows, but I'm not going to forget/erase what Dick has done to make Jason look better.
Plus Battle for the Cowl is canon for the whole Bat Family considering Green Lantern and Bat Family's timeline was barely affected by the New-52 reboot, in fact, during Nightwing #1, Grayson claims he spent 1 year filling the spot for Bruce as Batman when he was away, and the Battle for the Cowl is the story which goes prior to Dick becoming Batman, so it needed to happen for Dick to become Batman, meaning it should be canon or unaffected...
He was surprised that he got sucker shot, not because of his skill. We've seen what happens when Grayson fights Midnighter and it's not pretty. And this is with Spyral tech.
I still see it as Jason>Grayson, but I guess we'll agree to disagree.
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Sep 2nd, 2016 04:49 AM
