Yes, speculation, you've raised no proof that Luke possessed comprehensive knowledge of the Jedi fighting arts, and would have been able to pass that down to Kylo, nor has Kylo done anything to suggest he is a match for one the most skilled Sith in history. That simple. And Kylo's crude and unstable weapon reflects the fact he doesn't know how to build a frikken lightsaber, or to quote the TFA Visual Dictionary, "suggests construction by an inexperienced hand." But it's his cruder "primitive" fighting style that speaks volumes. My point is friend that we can't expect Kylo to achieve the same level of talent as Luke, who possessed the potential of the Chosen One, Ahsoka's feats speak for themselves. Nor are Force traditions relevant to lightsaber combat.
And of course Tano's feats are usable against Kylo, it places the burden or proof on you to demonstrate he is a match for them, so far so unsuccessful.An all-out Vader would win comfortably, though it wouldn't necessarily be a stomp.
Last edited by Beniboybling on Sep 2nd, 2016 at 06:34 PM
Like I said, it doesn't influence my argument in general. Kylo just hasn't been put in a situation like Ahsoka ik Season 2 to prove himself but that doesn't mean he can't. He's inexperienced in terms of lightsaber building? Now that definitely means that he's a bad combatant. How do you know his fightingstyle is primitive and what does it matter he isn't as talented as Luke? His talent still outsptrips that of Ahsoka and so does his amount of training. It's Jedi traditions, Jedi history and Jedi secrets, that can include anything ranging from combat to spiritual approach of the Force.
Like I said previously in my comment, Kylo hasn't been put against the same opponents Ahsoka has, but that doesn't mean he can't perform similarly or better. That's why I compare their training, potential, ...
My general argument comes down to the fact that Kylo has every single thing in his favor, yes even training. It means jack shit that he isn't trained in the traditional sense of fighting, it didn't help Vader against Luke nor is it going to help Ahsoka against Kylo because like in Luke against Vader, Kylo is the one who possesses the bigger potential, better connection to the Force and even the amount of training by a more knowledgeable master then Ahsoka's.
Uh-huh, Ahsoka > Ren as a duelist, that's the point of contention here.The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate he can.It reflects his inexperience in general yes, this may well be the first lightsaber he's ever handled.Because J.J. described it in that way and its visibly crude.It matters because it makes your comparison to Luke irrelevant.In regards to lightsaber combat you still haven't proven that.You haven't proven this either.I'm not interested it what you think it might involve, I'm asking for proof, not assumptions.Which again, it's down to you to prove. Regardless this only makes him inexperienced.And there is no evidence that Kylo's lightsaber training was as good as Ahsoka's.Aside from classical training and demonstrated skill with a lightsaber, sure.Luke didn't have half those things on Vader, but OK, more importantly though there is no evidence to suggest Luke is a better lightsaber combat instructor than Anakin, one of the most talented duelists in Jedi history, with all the Jedi's combat knowledge and resources at his disposal, and its ridiculous to assume otherwise.
Last edited by Beniboybling on Sep 2nd, 2016 at 07:48 PM
Yes I did by comparing his knowledge, training, potential,... and Maul's confirmed to be Ahsoka's superior anyway.
He was trained in lightsaber combat by Luke and we know he started training with Luke at a young age until he was at least 24 years old while Ahsoka left the Jedi Order when she was 17. So no it's not the first lightsaber he's handled nor is he inexperienced in it.
So because his lightsaber style is 'crude' it's automatically bad? JJ's quotes aren't canon, the visual guide which confirms Kylo's training is.
The comparison isn't irrelevant, Kylo is, like Luke, more talented/has a higher potential then Ahsoka (Vader in Luke's case). We know that connection to the Force is the most important aspect when looking at lightsaber talent so yes Kylo's going to be more talentend in it than Ashoka.
It are general terms, I could as easily ask for evidence that it doesn't inlcude Jedi combat knowledge.
You also have no prove Anakin is a better teacher then Luke.... First of all Anakin himself didn't have access to all the Jedi's knowledge (e.g. the holocron vault was only for council members) nor was he ever said to have intesively studied Jedi knowledge which extended beyond his standard training at the hands of Obi-Wan. Luke's knowledge of lightsaber combat in RotJ, as inexperienced as he was, was enough for him to match Vader, like Ahsoka a classical trained duelist, and eventually defaet him so a general more knowledgeable Luke (was studied Jedi lore intensively) would definitely been able to give training to the same extent as he was given when becoming a Jedi.
So tell me why Luke isn't as good a teacher as Anakin? Because he wasn't trained in the classic forms? Didn't stop him against Vader (a classical trained fighter) so it isn't going to stop Kylo against Ahsoka. Because his isn't knowledgeable? Not really since Luke was actually confirmed to have studied old Jedi lore extensively and had something around two decades to grow after RotJ. Or maybe because Luke isn't skilled? Well he matched Vader just fine so I doubt that. Then was is going to stop him?
I finally just voted. Only six of us that prefer Ren. I suspect this will change after episode eight once you sycophants and frontrunners will see more Kylo feats and events after his training was complete. I can't wait to see you weaklings change your tune.