Because it is clearly said that Obi Wan was the one doing the action. Luke is just a newborn. He doesn't have the capability to "offer" assistance at this point. That aside, it is wrong anyways, since it is clear during the actual event itself that Luke did not do anything.
"Luke did not offer any assistance", Obi Wan took it. Can't you understand this? It was Obi Wan who tapped into Luke's force reserves and drew them into his own. Luke did not feed him, Obi Wan took the food and ate it.
Focus on the main event itself. You are utterly ignoring it, and desperately clinging to some side tangent, which is just a figure of speech, not at all meant to be taken literally. Especially because the actual event utterly contradicts it. Thus rendering it just a way of saying, or a manner of narration/figure of speech( call it whatever you want).
Case in point: Obi Wan drained Luke. End of story. I am not going to bother correcting you after this. I am pretty sure literally almost anybody will agree that Obi Wan was the one doing the draining.
That is a pretty laughable comparison. I am really not in the mood for discussions like this, so let me point out to you what force drain is:"Leeching/drawing off the life energy of another living being into your own to enhance your power". Which is exactly what Obi Wan did. Which is not at all, what Ood did.
You find no distinction between a living being and a nexus( which is meant to give energy to the force user of its alignment)? Drawing energy from a nexus isn't force drain, rofl.
Last edited by LordOfTheLight on Jan 8th, 2018 at 12:15 PM
What's the difference between absorbing someone's Force energy or a nexus' force energy?
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Eh, I doubt it - as in, the technique Obi-Wan uses is clearly different from the harmful, pervasive, dark-side "Force drain" we all know and love. It more similar to light-side powers like Force Valor, but in this instance you're calling on the strength of allies rather than giving it to them.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Jan 8th, 2018 at 03:36 PM
The word "tap" doesn't mean drain. It isn't a synonym. It's like saying Dooku tapped into the dark side. That means he immersed himself in the dark side and allowed it to flow through him without him doing anything.
And I show you the same source to you and prove Obi-Wan didn't drain Luke at all.
"Tapping into the tiny luminous being, Obi-Wan allowed Luke's singular Force signature to course into him.(...)
The description is accurate. Obi-Wan established a Force connection/bond with Luke by tapping into him, and let Luke/or for better use of words, Luke gave some of his Force strength to Obi-Wan.
Hence you have, "Obi-Wan allowed Luke's Force signature to course into him.(...)"
........
"Luke's assistance in the struggle with Fomadu had drained the boy totally, drubbing the newborn unconscious."
Credit:Lone Wolf-A Tale of Obi Wan and Luke
It was made very clear that Luke giving some of his Force strength to Obi-Wan drained him(hence: Luke's assistance)
I don't know what's so hard to understand?
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Exactly. It is not Force drain. Thank you for the back up. You really are one of KMC top debaters.
I don't know why it comes so hard to many OT/PT fan(boys too) to acknowledge that not all the Jedi lore was passed on from generation to generation. In fact much of it was lost.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Actually, this is incorrect. Obi Wan later acknowledges it as a harmful dark side variant of drain, later on in the novel:
It's made pretty obvious that he did it while under the temptation of the dark side. His extreme fear for Luke( outright stated) made him desperate enough to drain him of his force reserves, when Obi Wan was tremendously hindered and fighting a Dark Jedi.
As for you Nadd, I rally don't know if you are just incapable of understanding or voluntarily blinding yourself to the facts to suit your agenda, but I am genuinely baffled as to how you can't understand that it is Obi Wan, not Luke who is doing the action here. That you don't have the basic cranial capacity to understand that Obi Wan is taking Luke's power into his own being, that Luke is just a being, a spectator, an object waiting to be drained. Luke is not performing any kind of "action" here, it is just Obi Wan.
To officially end this little drama of yours, the official definition of "tap(ing)" as a verb is:
"To exploit/Exploiting or draw(ing) a supply( from a resource)".
In this case, Luke's force reserves are the "source". Obi Wan is "tapping" into it. Which means that he is "drawing" a "supply"(power) from the "source". It is the official definition of the verb, so if you had any common sense you would stop here. You can literally see that it is explicitly confirmed that Obi Wan was actively drawing energy from Luke. See, this is the problem when you get into a game of semantics, and when you are just blindly seeking to oppose the opposition's assertions by any means possible. It can be turned against you with even greater force.
More than that, I don't think even what I have posted( new quotes) will convince you. You are clinging on to that same quote that "Luke assisted", ignoring all common sense. Now that it is confirmed legitimately that it is a dark side ability, and not "a day old Luke being kind enough to offer his assistance", that "officially speaking" Obi Wan had actively drawn power from Luke's reserves, and that it was Obi Wan who had almost killed Luke with it, I am sure you will have some or another excuse for it.
Then ancient Jedi did use drain too, if tap to you means drain. Whether it is a nexus or a person makes no difference.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Why are there ROTS mentions in the scenes?
I am afraid it's not even part of the EU's canon. Thus, it cannot be used as proof for new Jedi>ancient Jedi since it shares a different continuity.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:04 PM
Nadd, just because something mentions RotS doesn't mean it's not Legends, lol. You do realise that there's plenty of Legends sources that refer to RotS, right? The movie era was far more built up in the Legends EU than in the Canon EU for obvious reasons.
I think you know me pretty well. I never joke or troll with any member around here. And I don't disrespect anyone. And I want to hold a decent debate or discussion.
And why you say "(...) is confirmed(...)?
Does that mean there was a time when it "wasn't confirmed"?
And who confirmed it?
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Oh, that I agree with. But the time frame still doesn't deviate from the story.
But I never heard of Lost Mission, to be honest.
LOTL says it's been confirmed to be Legends-wise. That means there was a time when its canonicity was disputable.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Not every Force power or talent is well known in all eras. Knowledge is gained and lost over time, and techniques that are common during the Great Sith War are all but forgotten by the time of the Clone Wars.
Dude, when I said it is confirmed to be Legends, I meant that it is legitimately a part of the Legends continuity.
Which happened immediately upon its release in 2015. The stories were written before but weren't published and you can hardly expect Disney to declare something that has not even been officially published as Legends.
I am back here. And I am definitely sure it is not Force drain.
Nowhere it is confirmed he did it under the temptation of the dark side. In fact this what it says:
Credit: Lone Wolf-A tale of Obi Wan and Luke
Even this scene with Luke, fazed by the struggle with Fomadu, alludes to the scene in ROTS where Anakin Force chokes Padme. And as we know: Force choke is a neutral ability.
What you clearly describe is Obi-Wan's reaction at a fainted Luke who amplified Obi-Wan's power when he established his bond with him. That's why Obi-Wan thought it was a dark ability, because Luke was rendered unconscious(harmed). In fact it even says that, after he fainted, Obi-Wan tried to save him, not to 'drain' him.
Remember, that Jedi thought that even Mind probe is a dark side ability.
No, what it said is that Luke was rendered unconscious by the struggle and Obi-Wan was trying to save him because Luke was fainted.
Actually this is only the definition of the word 'tap', you have forgotten to take in account the word 'into'; these two words go hand in hand together.
tap into
1. To establish a connection with; have access to:
2. To take advantage of:
Now, before you choose the 2nd option to debunk my argument. It won't work. Why? Because Obi-Wan created that Force bond with Luke for an advantage. And that was for Obi-Wan to let Luke to amplify his own power.
Credit:Lone Wolf-A Tale of Obi Wan and Luke
Also, you have two words that debunk your Force drain argument:
1. It is the word 'allowed'
2. It is the word 'assistance'
When you drain someone or something of their lifeforce or Force energy; you do not create a Force bond with them; you violently rip their lifeforce or Force energy out of them without the need of a connection. If this was Force drain; the word 'allowed' has no meaning in that context because you impose your will on them. That's why Force drain has nothing to do here. There wouldn't be any reason for Obi-Wan to allow anything from Luke because he would be the one to siphon Luke.
And you keep saying that the word 'assistance' is there just for the sake's sake(to fill the word count) and the writer didn't mean that but something else; but if that were to be true: the word itself should have apostrophes.
No way would Obi-Wan even try to siphon Luke; especially when he would have the knowledge of Force drain and what it does.
And lastly,
This is where you are wrong.
On the Eclipse, Luke Skywalker, Leia Organa Solo, and the UNBORN Anakin Solo used Force harmony to separate the reborn Emperor Palpatine from the dark side, causing the Force storm he had summoned to go out of control and consume him.
So, yeah, if an unborn could do that; so can Luke. Happy Dance
Also, Peņa revealed that the story was inspired by the seminal anime Lone Wolf and Cub and was originally to be published in Star Wars Insider as part of Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope's 30th Anniversary.
I also had a discussion with DarthAnt66 and he confirmed me that this story isn't part of the Legends/Expanded Universe.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 15th, 2018 at 04:15 PM
Jan 8th, 2018 12:13 PM
