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The Mask vs Amazo vs Solar vs DS Sentry
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Cogito
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And for every one of your hyperbolic examples for Sentry I could pull out a hundred examples of Odin being called omnipotent, etc.

Call me when Sentry is actually at that level on panel, and not being eaten by space worms


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:06 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Yes.
Here is 4 instances and I've already mentioned 3 of them.


  1. Sentry had an affair with Rogue because she can't absorb his powers.
  2. Absorbing Man was unable to absorb all of Sentry powers and unable to copy his powers over the reality despite he absorbed the power of a fragment of a Cosmic Cube
  3. the Super-Adaptoid was unable to copy Sentry powers even he was capable to fully copy all of Kubik's abilities.
  4. The Skrulls were unable to replicate Sentry powers despite they did it with the powers of all other heroes


Them being unable to =/= Amazo being unable to.

He has to have actively blocked them or fought them off to have a defence.

For example, thugs are regularly unable to hit Batman, because he's too fast.

Does this mean Batman wins a race against Quicksilver? No.

So unless Sentry actually blocked them, and not due to their own inability to absorb them, then you cannot share it across all characters.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:12 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cogito
And for every one of your hyperbolic examples for Sentry I could pull out a hundred examples of Odin being called omnipotent, etc.


They aren't hyperbolic.

Tony Stark had to inform the president of the USA about how bad the situation could degenerate if Sentry's powers were unleashed.

That's everything but hyperbolic.

Do you understand the context of Tony Stark when he is in charge of the National Security ?

Tony Stark is an authoritative source in the Marvel Universe and his judgement on the matter is relevant.

We could say the same about his creator and his main writer but they already showed this in the stories.


quote:
Call me when Sentry is actually at that level on panel, and not being eaten by space worms


Call me when anyone in the Marvel Universe stomps Molecule Man the way Sentry did, considering Molecule Man was at full power.

Call me when anyone in the Marvel Universe is stated to have limitless power confirmed by the other characters like Tony "Iron Man" Stark whom is one of the smartest Marvel character and one of the most skilled when it comes to understand the power of Cosmic Threats.

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:14 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Yet Stark always gets his ass handed to him when he's the 'authority' on something.

Case in point, his Buster armours. Magnetobuster. Thorbuster. Phoenixbuster. HulkbusterS.

Whenever he's convinced he knows what he's talking about, he fails.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:17 PM
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Cogito
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
They aren't hyperbolic.

Tony Stark had to inform the president of the USA about how bad the situation could degenerate if Sentry's powers were unleashed.

That's everything but hyperbolic.


That is practically the textbook definition of hyperbolic.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Call me when anyone in the Marvel Universe stomps Molecule Man the way Sentry did, considering Molecule Man was at full power.


Please, MM was decisively far far far below full power. Certainly not even close to the level he was operating at in the latest SW, but I shouldn't need to explain that.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:19 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by beatboks
How is amazo beating the toonforce of Mask???


By copying it. The Mask, at it's core, is magical..correct?

quote:
For that matter how does he beat DS Sentry???


I would imagine he would copy his power and the powers of his other opponents.

How would DS Sentry defeat Amazo?


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:19 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Them being unable to =/= Amazo being unable to.


Super-Adaptoid has better feats than Amazo as in showed in the previous page.

Amazo being inferior to the Super-Adaptoid when it comes to copy power he has no chance to obtain a better result.

quote:
He has to have actively blocked them or fought them off to have a defence.


He doesn't.

Sentry's passive defences already proved to be more than enough.

quote:
For example, thugs are regularly unable to hit Batman, because he's too fast.


Red Herring.

There is no correlation between copying powers and being good in hand to hand.

quote:
Does this mean Batman wins a race against Quicksilver? No.


Red herring again.


quote:
So unless Sentry actually blocked them, and not due to their own inability to absorb them, then you cannot share it across all characters.


He doesn't.

Sentry's passive defences already proved to be more than enough.

The Super-Adaptoid could copy Kubik but he couldn't copy Sentry.

I've never said that was because a flaw of the Super-Adaptoid so you are making a strawman.

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:20 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cogito
Please, MM was decisively far far far below full power. Certainly not even close to the level he was operating at in the latest SW, but I shouldn't need to explain that.


Yeah, when MM fought Beyonder they were tossing galaxies(or maybe it was universes) at each other. When he fought Sentry they were not doing those things and it's not exactly like Sentry lacked any of those crazy powerful feats. He had his fight with Genis in the microverse.

It has also been a while since I read the encounter with MM, but I seem to recall the guy had trouble with Wolverines son during the fight?


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:21 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Super-Adaptoid has better feats than Amazo as in showed in the previous page.

Amazo being inferior to the Super-Adaptoid when it comes to copy power he has no chance to obtain a better result.



He doesn't.

Sentry's passive defences already proved to be more than enough.



Red Herring.

There is no correlation between copying powers and being good in hand to hand.



Red herring again.




He doesn't.

Sentry's passive defences already proved to be more than enough.

The Super-Adaptoid could copy Kubik but he couldn't copy Sentry.

I've never said that was because a flaw of the Super-Adaptoid so you are making a strawman.


You do love throwing the terms around; have you just learnt about them recently? But I digress...

I never said there was a flaw. You're saying there's a passive ability of the Sentry; can you perhaps point to a handbook, or a character description within a comic thst says he has such an ability? Otherwise, its an inability by the characters to copy Sentry, NOT an ability you've suddenly dreamt up to fit your theory.

And if it is an inability, then you cannot extend it to other characters. We can't share feats, nor can we share defeats.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:25 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cogito
[B]That is practically the textbook definition of hyperbolic.


*copy and paste*

They aren't hyperbolic.

Tony Stark had to inform the president of the USA about how bad the situation could degenerate if Sentry's powers were unleashed.

That's everything but hyperbolic.

*end of copy and paste*


quote:
Please, MM was decisively far far far below full power.


He wasn't.

Owen was even more skilled than he was when fought the Beyonder due to his constant training.

There isn't a single instance in Dark Reign that shows Owen saying that he is unable to do something.

Owen's power is weakened ONLY when he believes that he can't do something.

He proved many times in the story to use his powers in many new ways while toying with the Avengers.

He showed himself even more ruthless that his dark and nerfed alter-ego.


quote:
Certainly not even close to the level he was operating at in the latest SW, but I shouldn't need to explain that.


You need to understand the nature of Owen's power.

We already know how powerful he is and in order to affect his opponents he just needs to affect THEIR molecules.

His second fight against the Beyonder showed a lack of control of his powers as the power backlashed everywhere despite the fact that Owen wanted to directly affect the Beyonder.

Owen being weakened during Dark Reign is a Fairy Tale coming from Sentry's haters.

No one at Marvel believes it.

Bendis himself said that Sentry's power is limitless, so tell me why you believe that he needed to nerf Owen, when Bendis himself tell us that Sentry has no limit to his power.

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:28 PM
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Surtur
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You're confusing the matter. I don't think people are saying MM was weakened in the story. By that I mean I don't think they are saying it was a PLOT point in the story itself that MM was not at full power.

Think of pre crisis Darkseid and post crisis Darkseid. They are the same person and I don't think we were ever given a legit IN story explanation to the tune of "yeah Darkseid has somehow been weakened". So why do we separate PC Darkseid from post crisis?


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:32 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
[B]You do love throwing the terms around; have you just learnt about them recently? But I digress...


Poor attempt at antagonizing me.

quote:
I never said there was a flaw. You're saying there's a passive ability of the Sentry; can you perhaps point to a handbook, or a character description within a comic thst says he has such an ability?


I gave the description of four feats showing that individuals can't copy his powers which is more than enough.

quote:
Otherwise, its an inability by the characters to copy Sentry, NOT an ability you've suddenly dreamt up to fit your theory.


Feats proves that those characters were unable to copy him despite their previous feats.

You are know moving the goalposts.

That's just a bit too much logical fallacies in a few posts bro.


quote:
And if it is an inability, then you cannot extend it to other characters. We can't share feats, nor can we share defeats.


It's not an inability.

Kubik is leagues above anything you showed Amazo to copy.

The Super-Adaptoid proved himself superior to Amazo just by copying Kubik's powers.

Sentry is leagues above Kubik in power and proved 4 times to have resisted to power copycats.

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:35 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
You're confusing the matter. I don't think people are saying MM was weakened in the story. By that I mean I don't think they are saying it was a PLOT point in the story itself that MM was not at full power.


MM was at full power and not weakened.

If Bendis wanted to show a less powerful reality warping contest he could have chosen Proteus or any other reality warper.

The reason why he chosen Owen was to show a glimpse of Sentry's true power.




quote:
Think of pre crisis Darkseid and post crisis Darkseid. They are the same person and I don't think we were ever given a legit IN story explanation to the tune of "yeah Darkseid has somehow been weakened". So why do we separate PC Darkseid from post crisis?


Darkseid's avatars are close to Superman in power.

Superman's power-level has changed through the different Ages (Gold, Silver, etc...) so it's clear that lowering the power of Superman will affect his Rogue gallery.

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:41 PM
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iceman24567
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
You're confusing the matter. I don't think people are saying MM was weakened in the story. By that I mean I don't think they are saying it was a PLOT point in the story itself that MM was not at full power.

Think of pre crisis Darkseid and post crisis Darkseid. They are the same person and I don't think we were ever given a legit IN story explanation to the tune of "yeah Darkseid has somehow been weakened". So why do we separate PC Darkseid from post crisis?
thumb up His powers were limited the comic proves this


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Last edited by iceman24567 on Sep 23rd, 2016 at 06:57 PM

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 06:48 PM
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Cogito
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The stupid has reached maximum levels.


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And on the first day, Doom spoke...
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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 07:00 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cogito
The stupid


Nice to meet you, I'm RealityWarper.

quote:
has reached maximum levels.


It's typical for people lacking arguments to resort on Ad Hominem fallacies.

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 07:57 PM
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Senor Cage
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Leaning towards Solar now. Amazo a close second.

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 08:29 PM
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Cogito
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
*copy and paste*

They aren't hyperbolic.

Tony Stark had to inform the president of the USA about how bad the situation could degenerate if Sentry's powers were unleashed.

That's everything but hyperbolic.

*end of copy and paste*

Yeah, and Odin isn't an absolute authority on himself when he says he's omnipotent? Thor isn't an authority on Odin when he calls him omnipotent?

It's all hyperbole.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
There isn't a single instance in Dark Reign that shows Owen saying that he is unable to do something.

When did the measure of power become what someone doesn't say?

Owen in the latest Secret Wars - the same one who put the "omniverse" in a box - had the combined power of an infinite number of Owens. Let's not pretend he was the one that Sentry fought.


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And on the first day, Doom spoke...
'Be.'
And then there was life."

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 08:54 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cogito
Yeah, and Odin isn't an absolute authority on himself when he says he's omnipotent? Thor isn't an authority on Odin when he calls him omnipotent?

It's all hyperbole.


What the hell are you talking about ?

Tony Stark specifically listed Sentry's abilities as "being capable to create a new House of M" and having "Unlimited psionic powers".

There is literally 0 correlation with Odin hyping himself.

Iron Man, as the responsible of the National Security, had to inform the President of the USA about the threat that many individual represent.

This has nothing to do with a random statement thrown in the heat of battle.

Nice definist fallacy by the way. XD

quote:
When did the measure of power become what someone doesn't say?


...

The power of Owen Reece is directly linked to his beliefs in his abilities. Owen being a complete nutcase doesn't change his power-level, only his beliefs on his abilities matter.

If Owen believes that he can't do something he always say it, that's his trademark.

Owen demonstrated that he fiercely believed in his abilities during without a single negative statement that he can't do something.

Molecule Man was definitely at full power during Dark Reign.


quote:
Owen in the latest Secret Wars - the same one who put the "omniverse" in a box - had the combined power of an infinite number of Owens. Let's not pretend he was the one that Sentry fought.


Owen never had the ability to use the power of the Beyonders and he was deprived of it when they re-created the Universe with Reed & Franklin.

Owen is the repository of Unlimited Power which has to be directed through an individual AKA Reed Richard. That means that Owen can't use the power of the Beyonders himself. He is just here to store the power. Franklin is the one who shape the Universes.

(please log in to view the image)

Franklin shape the Universes and give the idea to Reed whom uses the power of the Beyonders to create those Universes and slice the parts of Owen to create an anchor for those Universes which makes Owen whole again AKA stripped of the Owens whom were part of him.


(please log in to view the image)


In short, Owen was the same power-wise during Dark Reign and Sentry stomped him like a fly. Sentry is far more powerful than Owen. Deal with it.

Last edited by RealityWarper on Sep 23rd, 2016 at 09:52 PM

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 09:46 PM
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Cogito
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RealityWarper
What the hell are you talking about ?

Tony Stark specifically listed Sentry's abilities as "being capable to create a new House of M" and having "Unlimited psionic powers".


Yes, and Odin specifically lists his abilities as "omnipotent". Still the same. If it's way out of the range shown on panel, it's hyperbole. Period.

Too bored to read the rest of your post thumb up


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And on the first day, Doom spoke...
'Be.'
And then there was life."

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2016 11:03 PM
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