Shaak has nothing notable in her repitore here. Galen is simply a trash-tier duelist who gets smacked around by single Imperial Garuds. Any scaling with him as the measuring stick is going to envelope negatively as the seal starts to unravel. Likewise, Vader is also nothing but a crippled half-droid and a shadow of his former self, who can just about stretch his talents far enough for a stalemate with Old Ben, a less powerful and less skilful version of his ATOC self (Fightsaber) , that Assaj had already beaten. Other than that, Ti wins the crown for loosing the most amount of times to Grevious, and in stomps might I add, while Ventress actually stood a chance, and there's little evidence that she got any better from there, nor is there any evidence that she woz-amped on Felucia anymore than Galen Marek would be amped from an unprecedented galactic unbalancing of the Force towards the Darkness.
See you still haven't addressed my debunking of your shit tier arguments in the other thread Ziggy. That's ok. You can run and hide spouting your bullshit elsewhere but and I both know in our hearts that...
Your concession was accepted.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
2) I asked for a better formatted version of your argument in the battlebar, and I addressed the point regarding Galen having "almost perfected lightsaber combat" in quite some depth, your response was absent - you can find that rebuttal here
3) I am perfectly happy to go over it again for the sake of debate, but not if you're going to get overly emotional and start hurling abusive daggers in my direction.
I'll lay out the points as follows :
1) Shaak ti isn't special among the Clone Era days of yore, Ventress is
2) Shaak ti stalemating / edging Galen is her only feat worth mentioning in the same breath
3) Galen gets slapped by random imperial guards
4) Galen having "almost perfected lightsaber combat" is an accolade rooted in arbitrary meaning, why is it any different to Adi Gaila mastering lightsaber combat other than the word "almost" being absent?
5) There is no proof that any of Galen's other opponents are worth two shits in combat, Ventress would sweep them in a gauntletto
6) Galen's crowning achievement is besting Vader, the latter of which is a shadow of his former self and a robotic cripple who can not penetrate the guard of the rusty and out-of-practice Obi Wan Kenobi, nor is he overwhelming a neophyte Luke with TK in ESB.
2. You're not getting a better formatted version if you're referring to me actually quoting your argument. I don't do quotes for anyone.
3. Saying "concession accepted" is hurling abusive daggers? Jesus. How do your survive on this forum?
1. Shaak Ti as of RotS is noted to be one of the more skilled and powerful masters of the Order. She's certainly comparable to Ventress if not her equal.
2. Shaak Ti's notable feat is her accolades of skill and ability to fend of dozens of magnaguards combined with a power that is firmly above both Rahm and Paratus.
3. There's nothing suggesting the Imperial guards were capable of anything but contending for a short period in the comic and it's confirmed that that's as long as they can go up against Galen before being taken out. Regardless the Imperial Guard's ability is not based on their station but their performance and demonstrated feats.
4. Because mastery and perfection are two different levels of ability as I already noted when I posted the example of Mace and Obi Wan's conversation. You would also know that Kas'im had perfected lightsaber combat yet his ability as a lightsaber combatant was limited to his technical ability and ability as a Force user which was why he was on the losing end against Bane with a single blade despite being more skilled.
5. Blanket statement that only applies to a few of the opponents Galen faces.
6. Which clearly refers to potential given there are multiple quotes stating he has become more powerful then he was as Anakin Skywalker and who has logically grew more experienced and skilled due to having nearly two decades of leading the Jedi Purge along with all of Anakin's knowledge and experience.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
Welp, lets look over some stuff for Ti, shall we? In the novel, she's painted as a clear superior to Felucia!Galen in just about everything.
She was too fast for him and too strong for him, driving him back with both speed and strength:
"The apprentice simultaneously backflipped and blocked her opening blow. The force of it surprised him, and the recoil threw him backward. His hood caught on one of the sarlacc's teeth, and he tore it impatiently away before the snag could interfere with his defense. Shaak Ti's lightsaber was a jagged blue blur between them. He blocked her as best he could until he had his balance again.
Then he jumped. Over her he spun and fell down two layers of teeth toward the mouth of the sarlacc. From there he jumped up again, angling away from her to avoid giving the Jedi the advantage of height, but she was there ahead of him, driving him back down with a series of blows so rapid he barely caught them all."
-- TFU novelisation
In truth, Galen's victory came about through a desperate Force Push, and using the Sarlaac to his advantage(ironically) and Galen considered himself lucky to defeat her:
"In desperation, he summoned a bolt of Sith lightning and sent it down, into the flesh of the sarlacc. The beast roared and shook, giving him the opening he needed. Shaak Ti's right foot slipped, forcing her to flip elegantly out of reach of his blade. He leapt after her, swinging as he came."
-- TFU novelisation
"He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her."
-- TFU novelisation
Now some may point to Ti throwing herself onto Galen's blade, something that was a desperate action. But, this was only from Galen's perspective.
Had he not Force Pushed her blade to the side, she would've skewered him before his blade could pierce her. However, as it is, she didn't manage to connect, her blade got pushed away and her continued leap had Galen's blade pierce her.
In any case, the novel makes it clear that Shaak is the superior duelist of the two, and superior physically. The novel also implies Ti's superiority power-wise, because Galen failed to re-awaken the Dark Side that Shaak Ti held at bay on Felucia:
"She had taken a world enjoying the normal flows between the light and the dark sides of the Force and twisted it out of balance. There was still darkness on Felucia, but it was stifled, frustrated, weakened. He strained to awaken it, to remind it of its proper place in the universe. The light side had held sway for far too long."
-- TFU novelisation
And, as per the TFU Campaign Guide, strong Force Agents can influence the balance of Felucia. Yet if Galen truly was more powerful than Ti at the time of his mission to Felucia, why didn't he break her hold on the planet? And before anyone mentions Maris: she didn't hold the planet in sway, Ti's death did, Brood simply turned the Shamans to the Dark Side.
Additionally, Shaak was painted as the superior telepath, breaking Marek's mental hold over the Sarlaac:
"He smiled, letting anger fuel his hatred for her and for all that the Jedi represented. With the dark side behind him, he reached out for the mind of the sarlacc and goaded it to lash out at her.
All the creature did was roar. It resisted him, he realized, with her help."
-- TFU novelisation
And Shaak is the better telekinetic, I would argue. Now granted, Galen's repulse did severely injure her, but there's something I find worth mentioning. Notice how Ti is unprepared for the attack, and she cannot even finish her sentence before the repulse is thrown out. Yet still, she remains unmoved by the attack; indicating whatever passive barrier she had managed to at least weaken the repulse and stop it from hurling her away to oblivion:
(please log in to view the image)
To not mention how Galen unleashed an extremely powerful burst of energy and was clearly enraged at the time. Now compare that to this:
(please log in to view the image)
^ Shaak's casual Force Push manages to hurl back Galen a considerable distance, injure him and leave him floored long enough for her to gather her kinetite energies. What makes it all the better is Ti wasn't enraged, and Galen was actually combat-ready.
It is pretty clear every source, besides the game which has Marek as the GOAT, has Ti in some way beating Galen and him only managing to strike back through desperate means or cheapshots.
Galen at this point was beyond an army buster, contended with Vader in spars, perfected his skill, as a teen was better than most Jedi during the Clone Wars, bested Rahm Kota(a master of Juyo, which only some of the greatest Jedi with high level mastery of multiple forms can practice) and bested Kazdan who had the aid of twelve droids that fought like rough, nerfed versions of the Jedi Council.
Novel has it a desperation tactic, and comic has it a cheapshot. Deal with it, Beni.
Hey, prime Vader is still better than prime Galen who is still considerably better than Shaak, who in turn is better than Felucia!Galen who in turn is considerably better than Rahm Kota.
If anything, bumping up Ti would help the Vader/Marek brigade.
That's enough out of you Myth, time for an actual analysis, that doesn't cherry pick the parts where Ti was doing well:Marek is caught off-guard and off-balanced by her initial attack. Which is a point for Ti, but its also textbook Ataru to come out gun's blazing in this manner in an attempt to overwhelm your opponent. As your recall Ahsoka opens in a similar way against Darth Vader, and it gives her an initial edge, yet only Quan believes she's better than him.
More to the point, he was off-balanced, and its also likely the unfamiliar and uneven terrain contributed to his disadvantage.Marek tactically retreats to regain his composure but Ti intercedes, using higher ground he sought to avoid her exploiting to drive him back. And again, Ti is going all-out here.By harming the sarlaac Marek is able to regain composure and push Ti, causing Ti, presumably, to lose the height advantage as they fight on even terrain. From this point onward they appear to be at an impasse, with no indication that Shaak Ti held the upper hand, or that Marek was barely fending off her assault.
Ti also uses the sarlaac against him, and the terrain "more treacherous" as the descend deeper. Certainly lending itself to Ti who possesses both experience of the terrain and better spatial awareness.In this final exchange Ti betrays her weakness, attempting to defeat Marek in a final suicidal flurry that demonstrates she was not capable of overwhelming Marek's defences, resorting to an all-out attack that could have at best resulted in their mutual destruction.
And while you can perform as many mental gymnastics as you please to explain away her defeat, the fact is she put herself in a position where all Marek needed to do was raise his blade reflexively to kill her i.e. she left herself completely exposed - she was desperate, period.
Oct 8th, 2016 02:36 PM
