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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Can Darth Nihilus drain a planet without orbital bombardment?


Can Darth Nihilus drain a planet without orbital bombardment?
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Yes, he can 18 66.67%
No, he can't 8 29.63%
I'm not sure, tbh. 1 3.70%
Total: 27 votes 100%
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Can Darth Nihilus drain a planet without orbital bombardment?
Started by: Deronn_solo

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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Don't feed the troll, Nova.

It's obviously that moron ZiggyStardust back from the grave again.


I know.

Didn't Ziggy at least try to be intelligent?

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 02:04 AM
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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

Once you get past the horrible yo mama jokes, there is a rather striking resemblance between the two.


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 02:28 AM
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Beniboybling
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Registered: Jul 2014
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If so he's clearly had a breakdown.


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 07:14 AM
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MythLord
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thumb up


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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

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That's some serious deterioration.

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 08:59 AM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
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Pot, kettle, black tbh.


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 09:21 AM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

What do you say when a third person comes in and the same thing applies to them?

Also, this running deterioration thing - I'm just curious as to what I had in the past that's lacking now. Personally, I don't think much has changed. I mean, I used to believe in feats only and arrived at far more preposterous conclusions than now.

Not sure why Neph is saying it, either. My disagreements with him have always been present. lol

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 09:34 AM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
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Oh, I guess I just assumed that at some point you didn't ascribe to this retarded theory about him needing outside help to use his technique. I suppose that was just overly-optimistic of me.

Katarr has the buildings crumbling from Nihilus' attack btw. I suppose a giant black cloud of death is a little hard to figure out though. Maybe it's some kind of prototype laser???


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 09:45 AM
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SunRazer
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Registered: Apr 2015
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I already said - if it's not orbital bombardment, it's something else. Preparation is necessary. Both KotOR II and SWTOR confirm that. It's not something he can do instantly.

If Nihilus caused the buildings to crumble, it wasn't with Drain, lmfao. Also, smoke does billow from destroyed buildings (obviously the clouds weren't the lasers, lmfao). I hope you knew that. An off-panel bombardment isn't out of the question.

I'll wait for you to reconcile Onderon, Telos, and the worlds he blasted into ruin, though.

Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 4th, 2017 at 09:54 AM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 09:48 AM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
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Preparation doesn't imply a limitation of requirement. In this case we know that he was "preparing" in that he was trying to find the Jedi he was informed were there. He could use the attack at any point as he did when the Exile confronted him.

Why not?


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 09:54 AM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Preparation doesn't imply a limitation of requirement. In this case we know that he was "preparing" in that he was trying to find the Jedi he was informed were there. He could use the attack at any point as he did when the Exile confronted him.


Why is it necessary for him to locate anything if he can speak and kill every living thing on a planet? Why can't he just devour everything indiscriminately and just take the winnings? He doesn't care. Likewise, he should've devoured all life on Citadel Station and the Republic fleet, which would've ended the battle instantly and allowed him to prepare for Telos for as long as he wanted.

As someone who defends Unseen, Unheard's prose to the maximum, surely if Nihilus consumed all life on Katarr, down to the vegetation and vermin, he didn't target his enemies. It'd be ridiculous enough to assume that he outright targeted the better part of a hundred Jedi, as well as millions of Miraluka, let alone everything else.

This also doesn't explain why Nihilus failed on Onderon, and why he bothered to blast worlds into ruin at all if he could just devour all life on a planet on a whim with no conditions attached.

quote:
Why not?


What's this in response to? Why the buildings weren't destroyed by Drain, a power that focuses on devouring the victim's Force connections? Connect the dots yourself.

Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 4th, 2017 at 10:15 AM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 10:06 AM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
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I'll get to you soon. See if you can work out where you went wrong without me spelling it out tho.


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 10:17 AM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

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Well, I need a response to everything before I can piece together what your take on this is. You've neglected to respond to some things more than once.

Regarding Citadel Station, I'd expect a response along the lines of "he didn't care about them". Which is actually fair enough. I'll wait to see what your response will be for the rest of it, though.

Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 4th, 2017 at 10:33 AM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 10:22 AM
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Beniboybling
Worst Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom


 

You too Nova?

Vitiate's drain destroyed buildings on Ziost.

You see the destruction of the planet from space, and there is no bombardment.

You see the destruction of the planet from the ground, and there is no bombardment.

It was drain. Seven returds think otherwise, KMC needs a purge. smile


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 11:31 AM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

I said the bombardment would be off-panel in this case. At the minimum it's a plausible explanation.

And what Vitiate did on Ziost is absolutely not what Nihilus did on Katarr, lmfao. Force Drain in KotOR II doesn't affect buildings.

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 01:21 PM
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Beniboybling
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plausible
adjective
(of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.

(please log in to view the image)



Nah, unless he was shooting at a different planet, not plausible.

And what Vitiate did on Ziost was drain a planet of all life, what did Nihilus do to Katarr again? And where is it stated that KOTOR II drain doesn't affect buildings? The gloss edition campaign guide?


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Last edited by Beniboybling on Jan 4th, 2017 at 01:44 PM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 01:40 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Why is it necessary for him to locate anything if he can speak and kill every living thing on a planet? Why can't he just devour everything indiscriminately and just take the winnings? He doesn't care. Likewise, he should've devoured all life on Citadel Station and the Republic fleet, which would've ended the battle instantly and allowed him to prepare for Telos for as long as he wanted.

As someone who defends Unseen, Unheard's prose to the maximum, surely if Nihilus consumed all life on Katarr, down to the vegetation and vermin, he didn't target his enemies. It'd be ridiculous enough to assume that he outright targeted the better part of a hundred Jedi, as well as millions of Miraluka, let alone everything else.

This also doesn't explain why Nihilus failed on Onderon, and why he bothered to blast worlds into ruin at all if he could just devour all life on a planet on a whim with no conditions attached.


An irrelevant question since we're directly told he's trying to find them. They could be fleeing the system in a ship or hiding in some deep underground bunker or something (which is what Atris was actually doing btw). He could be trying to figure out if he was lied to or not. Or merely confused. It's not as if he's a particularly rational person, his hunger could be overwhelming him with the desire to feed on Jedi and so he's intensely focused on finding them, disregarding everything else. Or, like has been posited before, he could be out of range.

And yet he had enough pinpoint control over the attack to spare Visas.

He didn't fail on Onderon, he never goes into the Onderon system. That's just you fanon'ing up something and acting like it's real again.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
What's this in response to? Why the buildings weren't destroyed by Drain, a power that focuses on devouring the victim's Force connections? Connect the dots yourself.


Like Beni said, Vitiate's Ziost drain also destroyed the buildings, scarred the planets surface and disintegrated the population. Nihilus' attack was shown to do the same thing, destroying the buildings, turning everyone into skeletons and turning the planet into a desolate wasteland. Is it not plausible that with the two's level of power that their drains could manifest corporeal damage upon the environment? Like we actually see happening?

Similarly, as Beni has already pointed out you can see the attack as it occurs from space and there is no orbital bombardment or attack other than Nihilus' drain/smoke monster from Lost attack.

Your suggestion that the smoke was from destroyed buildings was one of the dumbest things I've seen you say btw. Degeneration indeed.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, I need a response to everything before I can piece together what your take on this is. You've neglected to respond to some things more than once.


I didn't neglect to respond to your points, you edited them in after I began my response.


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 02:44 PM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
plausible
adjective
(of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.

(please log in to view the image)



Nah, unless he was shooting at a different planet, not plausible.

And what Vitiate did on Ziost was drain a planet of all life, what did Nihilus do to Katarr again? And where is it stated that KOTOR II drain doesn't affect buildings? The gloss edition campaign guide?


The cloud could've constituted a different Force attack.

What Vitiate did on Ziost would be more comparable to a ritual like Nathema than something like Nihilus' Drain in KotOR II. I have no reason to suspect that Vitiate would've learned the technique.

As for why Drain doesn't damage buildings - by definition, it doesn't. That's why the TCSWE quote mentions Nihilus feeding on worlds independently of him "blasting them into ruin", because they're not the same power.

I'll provide you with every in-game definition and we'll see what there is that affects buildings:

quote:
"You give others strength to act, but it is also possible to draw upon the strength of others to increase your own. It is similar to drawing upon the Force as Jedi do, but when it is touched by the power of the dark side... it is something else, something deadly. These Sith we face... they have learned how to do this. It is a technique that has been lost for some time, not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other Force Sensitives - and at the highest pinnacle of power, use it to consume anything that lives. They draw upon the connections in the Force, and devour it."

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords


This pretty much seals it. Traya says that it can be used to consume Force-sensitives, and at the highest pinnacle, consume anything that lives. Buildings obviously not included, not to mention that Nihilus hasn't even reached the pinnacle yet.

quote:
"As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely."

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords


Unless buildings have Force connections, then no, they wouldn't be affected.

quote:
"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords


Mind explaining to me how buildings have connections to life or the Force that can be severed, and then how buildings have deaths that can be fed upon?

Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 5th, 2017 at 12:12 AM

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 11:59 PM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
An irrelevant question since we're directly told he's trying to find them. They could be fleeing the system in a ship or hiding in some deep underground bunker or something (which is what Atris was actually doing btw). He could be trying to figure out if he was lied to or not. Or merely confused. It's not as if he's a particularly rational person, his hunger could be overwhelming him with the desire to feed on Jedi and so he's intensely focused on finding them, disregarding everything else. Or, like has been posited before, he could be out of range.


The Exile directly says that Nihilus already senses that there are no Jedi. And as both Visas and Tobin claim, if there are no Jedi on the planet, then he will feed on it anyway to sate himself to whatever extent possible.

Out of range? He was trying to feed on Onderon from across the galaxy. And don't you place stock in that "Devastating Power, Distant Power" stuff that claims Nihilus' Drain has the range of a star system?

This also doesn't explain what his preparation to Drain the planet was. Unless you think the actual preparation was targeting every single organism on the planet below? Regardless, the SWTOR codex mentions him preparing to devour "all life" on the planet below, meaning it's indiscriminate and not just in relation to the Jedi, and it also means that only "all life" would be affected, again, not including buildings.

quote:
And yet he had enough pinpoint control over the attack to spare Visas.


Why would he spare Visas of all people on the planet? It seems to be more that Nihilus traversed the planet to see if there were any survivors, and upon finding Visas, took her back. Where is it said that the intentionally saved Visas from the get go?

quote:
He didn't fail on Onderon, he never goes into the Onderon system. That's just you fanon'ing up something and acting like it's real again.


He never went to Onderon but he was trying to feed upon it from a distance.

quote:
"The attack on Onderon... something was attempting to use the planet itself, to feed on it, to draw on the power there. You prevented it, but it was a stalling measure. The next time will be critical."

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords


Unless you can find an alternative explanation for what was trying to feed on Onderon.

quote:
Like Beni said, Vitiate's Ziost drain also destroyed the buildings, scarred the planets surface and disintegrated the population. Nihilus' attack was shown to do the same thing, destroying the buildings, turning everyone into skeletons and turning the planet into a desolate wasteland. Is it not plausible that with the two's level of power that their drains could manifest corporeal damage upon the environment? Like we actually see happening?


Whatever Vitiate did isn't the same power as Nihilus', which affects connections to life and the Force, not buildings, which constitute neither. If Vitiate damaged buildings, then that's just proof that he's doing something else.

quote:
Similarly, as Beni has already pointed out you can see the attack as it occurs from space and there is no orbital bombardment or attack other than Nihilus' drain/smoke monster from Lost attack.

Your suggestion that the smoke was from destroyed buildings was one of the dumbest things I've seen you say btw. Degeneration indeed.


I just said it would've either been off-panel or some other Force attack, but not Force Drain.

That's why TCSWE mentions Nihilus "blasting worlds into ruin" independently of his feeding on them. They're not the same power.

You don't get to talk about what's dumb after positing that an attack that drains life forces and Force connections can hurt buildings, by the way.

Last edited by SunRazer on Jan 5th, 2017 at 12:22 AM

Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 12:08 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

The revelation about Onderon is very telling! An effort to draw on the power of the planet itself and channel it against its inhabitants? I think that this might be preparation aspect of it. This is similar to what Abeloth did on Coruscant.

SunRazer has a solid case here. What if those cloudy formations are a manifestation of Darth Nihilus channeling the power of Katarr (itself) into an attack on its inhabitants? Interesting.

---

Vitiate certainly devastated Ziost with his powers but the tsunami of Dark Side energy (that he unleashed on the planet initially) destroyed life-forms, vaporized oceans, wrecked the atmosphere and also destroyed softer inanimate stuff like statues, furniture and such (considering visual evidence only). However, its sheer intensity would have generated powerful tremors on the ground and those tremors would have wrecked the surface and destroyed many buildings (If I am not mistaken). Even the orbiting space stations were shaking from the intensity.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jan 5th, 2017 at 07:05 AM

Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 06:55 AM
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