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Omni King vs COIE Anti Monitor
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bbrem123
Didnt say it did. Sure helps Zen-Oh case though. There has been zero evidence to him ever being injured.

This is a hard thread to argue in the favor of either side.


You also have to consider that Shin didn't even know who Omni-King was until DBS episode 41. He isn't some expert on whether the Omni-King has been hurt or not anyways. Not that I think Omni-King has ever been hurt before, he's undoubtedly the supreme power in DBS. That said, none of this really helps Zen-Oh's case, because the rest of the DBS cast is weak relative to peak COIE AM, who wielded the collective power of 2 multiverses and got the better of a Spectre that was so amped, it was implied that his power surpassed that of The Presence. Granted, it was hyperbole, but that was quite possibly the most powerful Spectre there's ever been, and he essentially lost to AM.

The best way to argue Zen-Oh winning this is to believe Shin's notion that a heavily suppressed Jiren was more powerful than Cosmic Zamasu, who had literally become the entire FT Timeline and was spreading to other timelines. Of course, even full power Jiren is a flea to the likes of Whis, much less Daishinkan, much less Zen-Oh, who could erase them all instantly and effortlessly.

That said, I would probably still roll with peak COIE AM.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 02:12 AM
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carver9
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Anti Monitor was getting holes punched into him by Flash. He dies here and easily.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 04:19 AM
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cdtm
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Here's what Flash accomplished:


(please log in to view the image)


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Last edited by cdtm on Dec 16th, 2017 at 04:29 AM

Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 04:25 AM
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carver9
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Made him turn into energy and Beerus, someone who doesn't hold a candle to Zeno, absorbed a Universe + destroying attack with ease. Anti Monitor gets erased.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 04:29 PM
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cdtm
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Because he can absorb ki energy, he should absorb anti matter energy?

Do you even understand how matter and anti-matter interact? Beerus tries absorbing him, and he destroys himself.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 07:14 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Made him turn into energy and Beerus, someone who doesn't hold a candle to Zeno, absorbed a Universe + destroying attack with ease. Anti Monitor gets erased.


Although i support your point that Zeno wins.

Let's state clear that the Anti Monitor is WAY WAY beyond Beerus' level.

Also i think you are massively understimating Flash!

Flash can time travel as if kid's play! Something not even Whis can do!

So don't take Flash for nothing.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 07:56 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Although i support your point that Zeno wins.

Let's state clear that the Anti Monitor is WAY WAY beyond Beerus' level.

Also i think you are massively understimating Flash!

Flash can time travel as if kid's play! Something not even Whis can do!

So don't take Flash for nothing.


Lol... if Flash can punch holes in Anti Monitor then Beerus would do it much easier. Lol...time traveling doesn't change this. Surfer can time travel as well and people like Hulk and Beta Ray Bill give him fits.


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Old Post Dec 16th, 2017 11:11 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Lol... if Flash can punch holes in Anti Monitor then Beerus would do it much easier. Lol...time traveling doesn't change this. Surfer can time travel as well and people like Hulk and Beta Ray Bill give him fits.


That was before Anti Monitor achieved full power!

Once Anti Monitor was full powered it took all the heroes convined to defeat him! Even the Spectre needed help to stop him!

Also remember that COIE Anti Monitor's power at it's peak reached Infinite Universes - 5 in Crisis on Infinite Earths before being defeated by the heroes.

Beerus would pail in comparison!

Not even Whis would be able to do anything!


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Old Post Dec 17th, 2017 02:36 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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The only reason i give Zeno the Win here is because i don't know if Zeno is made of matter!

If someone can prove that Zeno is matter based then COIE Anti Monitor would erase him!


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Old Post Dec 17th, 2017 02:38 AM
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SSJGGogeta
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Why?


Zeno is able to destroy entire timelines, universes, and even multiverses, with zero effort.

Anti-monitor was strong, but it was implied that he was only able to fight with Spectre because he was dealing with internal conflict. Also, he did his absolute best to avoid fighting Spectre until he was amped with a multiverse.

Also, he didn't beat Spectre. Re-reading COIE, he just managed to use Krona to create a portal that funneled his own energy into the Spectre and caused him to overload his capacity for energy, and explode. That's what ended up making him go into a coma- he was overloaded with so much energy that he blew up in an explosion that destroyed a universe. Honestly it was a little stupid that a universe blowing up on him put such an amped Spectre in a coma, but the continuity was super shoddy back then.

Anyways, I'd argue that Spectre was super amped, but he wasn't as strong as you're implying.

Basically throughout COIE, Anti-monitor was shown to have trouble with universe level enemies, and needed help to defeat entities like Spectre, and was even eventually worn down by the likes of Superman and his pals.

AM wasn't really even universe level until he was fueled by the entire multiverse, save two universes.

Even then he had a lot of trouble with even star level attacks, like when Dr. Light shot the energy of a star at him.

Basically my point is that Zeno has shown the ability to destroy things much better/easier than AM. Anti-monitor couldn't even destroy a universe with one attack- it took him time and he had to absorb it into the AM universe.

Honestly, I could see the likes of Beerus pulling a win on AM at this point. Most of AM's feats were accomplished over millions/billions of years, and with tons of prep, planning, technology, and help. Think about it, Superman was lightyears above any of the other people fighting the AM other than Spectre, who was dealt with via energy overload, and he was only around galaxy level even back then.

A handful of galaxy/solar system/star level characters were able to take down AM.

On the other hand, Zeno casually "squishes" characters that can universe bust with ease, along with their respective universes.

I just don't see how AM could withstand a "squish" at this point. It's too powerful.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The only reason i give Zeno the Win here is because i don't know if Zeno is made of matter!

If someone can prove that Zeno is matter based then COIE Anti Monitor would erase him!


Then why couldn't he do that to Superman? lol


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Old Post Dec 21st, 2017 01:42 AM
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RadZoa
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Honestly Zeno is at the best maybe Silver Surfer level, abit weaker probably. He couldn't even see Dyspo so anyone could kill Zeno via blitz, and DB Universes are maybe the size of a few solar systems at the best, lol only 28 planets with life, pathetic. Most Herald level characters could kill Zeno, the Grand Priest and Zeno's body guards quite easily. I know it hurts DB fans, but its true sad

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2017 06:23 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Zeno is able to destroy entire timelines, universes, and even multiverses, with zero effort.

Anti-monitor was strong, but it was implied that he was only able to fight with Spectre because he was dealing with internal conflict. Also, he did his absolute best to avoid fighting Spectre until he was amped with a multiverse.

Also, he didn't beat Spectre. Re-reading COIE, he just managed to use Krona to create a portal that funneled his own energy into the Spectre and caused him to overload his capacity for energy, and explode. That's what ended up making him go into a coma- he was overloaded with so much energy that he blew up in an explosion that destroyed a universe. Honestly it was a little stupid that a universe blowing up on him put such an amped Spectre in a coma, but the continuity was super shoddy back then.

Anyways, I'd argue that Spectre was super amped, but he wasn't as strong as you're implying.

Basically throughout COIE, Anti-monitor was shown to have trouble with universe level enemies, and needed help to defeat entities like Spectre, and was even eventually worn down by the likes of Superman and his pals.

AM wasn't really even universe level until he was fueled by the entire multiverse, save two universes.

Even then he had a lot of trouble with even star level attacks, like when Dr. Light shot the energy of a star at him.

Basically my point is that Zeno has shown the ability to destroy things much better/easier than AM. Anti-monitor couldn't even destroy a universe with one attack- it took him time and he had to absorb it into the AM universe.

Honestly, I could see the likes of Beerus pulling a win on AM at this point. Most of AM's feats were accomplished over millions/billions of years, and with tons of prep, planning, technology, and help. Think about it, Superman was lightyears above any of the other people fighting the AM other than Spectre, who was dealt with via energy overload, and he was only around galaxy level even back then.

A handful of galaxy/solar system/star level characters were able to take down AM.

On the other hand, Zeno casually "squishes" characters that can universe bust with ease, along with their respective universes.

I just don't see how AM could withstand a "squish" at this point. It's too powerful.



Then why couldn't he do that to Superman? lol


At the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths COIE Anti Monitor was neigh indestructible. Even the Spectre couldnt defeat him alone.

Ehhh..You realize Anti Monitor consumed Countless Universes with his Anti Matter?

That means that countless Supermans were erased from existance.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2017 03:10 PM
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cdtm
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And Zeno's durability is questionable. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Satan knocks him out at some point.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2017 03:39 PM
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bbrem123
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They say Zeno can never be defeated. Not sure how this makes him weak.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2017 04:03 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Shin's statements aren't iron-clad fact, especially given what he's said in the past, and that he didn't even know who Omni-King was until episode 41.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2017 04:14 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bbrem123
They say Zeno can never be defeated. Not sure how this makes him weak.


In his own universe. Marvel/DC's top tiers would be Gods in comparisson to Zeno.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2017 04:40 PM
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bbrem123
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Top tiers? What does that even mean.

Also, Zamasu would have just rushed Zen-Oh and killed him if he could. But he sh*t his pants instead. Im not saying anybody wins here FYI. I just pointing out that there is no proof to Zen-Oh being physically weak.

You cant just dismis his his strength just because he act like a small child. Actually has there ever been a character in DB with crazy power but weak physically?Curious, I cant seem to think of one of the top of my head.

Another question too. Does a character durability in DB measure up to around the amount of damage they can dish out?


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Last edited by bbrem123 on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 07:45 PM

Old Post Dec 22nd, 2017 07:33 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bbrem123
Top tiers? What does that even mean.

Also, Zamasu would have just rushed Zen-Oh and killed him if he could. But he sh*t his pants instead. Im not saying anybody wins here FYI. I just pointing out that there is no proof to Zen-Oh being physically weak.

You cant just dismis his his strength just because he act like a small child. Actually has there ever been a character in DB with crazy power but weak physically?Curious, I cant seem to think of one of the top of my head.

Another question too. Does a character durability in DB measure up to around the amount of damage they can dish out?


Heavy hitters well.

Zamasu is nowhere near the level of power of Anti Monitor.

Well he hasnt portrayed it.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 03:01 AM
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Galan007
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Originally posted by bbrem123
Another question too. Does a character durability in DB measure up to around the amount of damage they can dish out?
Power and durability are not always proportionate.

For example, SSB Vegeta is capable of 'dishing out' universal(ish) attacks, and was also VASTLY more powerful than 4th form Freeza during RoF... Yet Freeza's final earth-buster was still sufficient to kill Vegeta outright.

...Just as an example.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 03:10 AM
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cdtm
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Dragon Ball characters have always taken physical and energy attacks differently.

Goku probably can't bust a planet by hitting it. No one's ever shown remotely that sort of hitting power. Yet they damage each other with their weak strength, so Superman would turn them into atoms with one of his punch's..

They also tend to be weaker to extremes of temperature. Way back in Dragon Ball, Goku could tank a bullet, yet can't withstand sub zero temps.. In a later movie, Goku was helpless in icy conditions.

Brolly couldn't tank a sun. And a much more powerful SSJ Blue Vegeta couldn't withstand the steam/heat from that robot thing.


Odds are, Supermans heat vision or super breath would casually defeat Goku.


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Last edited by cdtm on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 03:32 AM

Old Post Dec 23rd, 2017 03:28 AM
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