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Discussing Caedus
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DarthCaedus77
Invincible!

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Aboard the Anakin Solo.


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Ah, the irony.


I'd rather be Vader+ level than sub Malak.


__________________

"We stand on a tipping point where we can choose chaos, or order"
-Jacen Solo

Old Post Nov 23rd, 2018 05:22 PM
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Lord GOAT
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Registered: Nov 2018
Location: Thon

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
Vader level, maybe slightly above based off the accolde that says he's>Vader as well as scaling from Luke.


So you have Caedus below Joruus?

Old Post Nov 23rd, 2018 05:24 PM
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TenebrousWay
God Tier Vaylin

Registered: Sep 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Ah, the irony.


__________________

"On the edge of sanity"

Old Post Nov 23rd, 2018 05:25 PM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
That quote is rock solid though and the Kun brigade hae been long since put in their place, face it your champion is sub Malak.


Prove it's even referencing the Force.

@OP, Caedus is between Vader and Malak.


__________________

Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.

Old Post Nov 23rd, 2018 11:55 PM
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AntiDebater
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-Lightsaber wielder/martial artist
Below Yoda, above Anakin.

-Telekinetic
Below Yoda and Kyp, above the universe.

-Telepathic
GOAT

-Force lightning'er
I don't care

-Force barrier'er
GOAT

-Overall Force user
Beats the universe except entities, Luke, Yoda, Sidious, Onimi, Nyax and Valkorion.

-Overall combatant
The same.

Old Post Nov 25th, 2018 02:49 AM
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DarthCaedus77
Invincible!

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Aboard the Anakin Solo.


 

Adressing Caedus's low showings!

Caedus Reigns! Ok, so Xiggy, time to put an end to you.

Aurra Sing!

quote:
Sing was already whirling, leaping toward him with her crimson blade coming around at neck height. Jacen brought his lightsaber up automatically and blocked, then pulled the detonator's thumb slide back.

He never saw whether the activation light darkened. Suddenly Sing's knee was sinking into his stomach, driving the breath from his lungs and sending him tumbling over a couch. The detonator clattered to the floor somewhere in the galley. He came down on a beverage table, smashing it apart, then Sing was over him, her crimson blade arcing down.


Ok, so the fight opens with Sing catching Jacen off guard and immediately kicking him so hard he breaks a table and is lying on the floor disadvantaged badly. Hardly a good way for the fight to open with th advantage very much favoured towards Sing.

quote:
Jacen whipped his lightsaber around to block, catching her blade about halfway up the shaft and filling the air with a sizzling shower of sparks. Sing grabbed her hilt with both hands and began to push, slowly driving the tip of her lightsaber down toward his eye.

The glow was as blinding as the heat was searing, and Jacen's vision blossomed into a fiery red blur. He brought his free hand up to brace his weapon arm and tried not to worry about whether his eyeball would melt, not daring to turn his head or even look away for fear that he would slip.


Jacen is now on the floor in a disadvantaged position with no leverage, trying to do everything in his power to keep himself from being killed with his eye nearly being taken out. Advantage so far remains very much in favour of Sing through no fault of Jacen't own. He's actually performed well despite disadvantaged circumstances he had no control over.

quote:
Sing kicked him in the side. The tip of a small, wedge-shaped blade scraped against his ribs and sent a blazing bolt of pain shooting into his body.

"Never..." She kicked him again, sending another bolt of pain deep into his stomach. "... violate..."

She kicked again.

"... my..." Another kick, more pain. "... mind!"

Sing kicked again, this time catching him near a kidney A wave of fiery anguish rolled through his body, stealing his breath, so hot he could not even scream. The pain would have paralyzed anyone else, left him on the floor praying to die before he drew his next breath.


Jacen is now being hit with kicks and to all intents and purposes should be dead right now. He however has performed admirably despite a number of disadvantages working against him yet is still on the losing end.

quote:
But pain was an old friend of Jacen's. He had learned to embrace it during his imprisonment among the Yuuzhan Vong, and now it no longer troubled him. Now it served him.


Jacen however draws off the pain and by some miracle despite his disadvantaged circumstances the fight turns in his favour.

quote:
He turned the palm of his bracing hand toward Sing and pushed with the Force.


Jacen manages to force push her and no, this isn't unfair before you say that lol, when she literally had the rest of the fight in her favour since the beginning. Simply evening the odds.

quote:
The move did not surprise her as much as he had hoped. As she flew away, Sing rolled the tip of her blade over his, and his lightsaber went flying. He held his Force shove until he heard her thud into the wall opposite, then sprang to his feet.

A fiery blur continued to blind one eye, and his sight in the other was still splashed with crimson blotches. But he could see clearly enough to be worried. Sing had landed near the refresher where Allana was hiding-close enough to fulfill her contract, if she was willing to risk Jacen attacking her from behind.


Sing manages to disarm Jacen though he was in a disadvantaged position. Once again this fight is ridden with context and anyone trying to use it to prove Caedus isn't top tier is ridiculous. Despite you lamenting about his pain tolerance though, pain very clearly still affects and weakens Jacen as shown in the passage. His eyes are both injured and he can't see perfectly just clearly enough to be worried.

quote:
Jacen did not give her that chance. He opened himself fully to his fear and anger, using the power of his emotions to bring the Force flooding into him, and his body began to crackle and burn with dark energy. He raised his arms in Sing's direction, hands held level and fingers splayed wide.

That was when the door to the refresher hissed open, and a pair of small gray eyes peered out. They were wide open and locked on Jacen with an expression that might have been awe or fear or both.
"No, Allana!" Jacen could not bring himself to release the Force lightning while she was watching; even if Tenel Ka had not yet taught her that the dark side was evil, his own childhood training remained strongly enough ingrained that he did not want his daughter to see him using it. "Close the ..."


Jacen then proceeds to nearly outright kill Sing and very clearly could have done so but holds back because of Allana.

quote:
Jacen had to let the order trail off when Sing took advantage of his hesitation to leap at him. Allana screamed from inside the refresher; then Sing was three paces away, lightsaber coming in for a midbody strike. Jacen lifted one foot as though to pivot away, and Sing took the bait and stopped, dropping one leg back as she continued her swing.

Instead of spinning past as he feinted, Jacen cartwheeled over her blade and came down on the other side. Sing reversed her attack so fast he barely had time to grab her wrist, much less turn her own weapon against her as he had intended.


So here's the funniest part. This fight has been littered with context, Sing holding the advantage due to a surprise attack that left Jacen in a disadvantaged position, significantly injured him until he drew off the pain and ragdolled her before being disarmed in the process, due to once again his position, Jacen nearly roasts her with lightning, holds back and then gets surprise attacked. Despite surprise, Jacen being injured and unarmed Sing is still unable to overpower him and gets her arm taken conttrol of by an unarmed, injured, surprised Jacen yet you'll argue they operate on the same tier because she nearly overpowered him with a surprise attack and positional advantage. WTAF?

quote:
So Jacen kicked her in the knee as hard as he could.

The joint dislocated with a sickening pop, and Sing collapsed to the floor shrieking. But she did not release her lightsaber. She did not even stop fighting, rolling into him in an effort to break his grasp and slash him open. Jacen started to pivot out of the way, intending to bring her arm around for a clean break behind her back.

But Allana suddenly appeared on the other side of Sing, charging forward with her dark brows lowered and what looked like a small recording rod clutched in her hands.


Jacen then nearly breaks Sing's arm after dislocating her knee and would have if not for Allana getting in the way. So an unarmed, injured Jacen who got surprise attacked dislocated Sing's knee and would have ended the fight by breaking her arm if not for Allana, once again demonstrating she's nothing but fodder to him.

quote:
"Allana, no!"

Allana kept coming.
Determined to keep Sing from striking out at his daughter with any of her weapons, Jacen Force-leapt backward, dragging the assassin away from his daughter. Allana took two more steps and raised the silver rod over her head . . . then dived.

Sing raised her uninjured leg, cocking her foot to kick Allana with the stubby knife in the toe of her boot.

Jacen screamed and whipped Sing's arm around, twisting her away from his daughter. Her lightsaber flashed by so close he nearly lost an ear, but the assassin's legs spun around with her body, and the kick-knife flashed past half a meter above Allana's head.

Allana landed on Sing's other leg and jammed the silver rod into her injured knee. The hiss of an autoinjector sounded from its tip, and Sing cried out in astonishment.

"You little shrew!"

Sing drew her leg back again to kick . . . then let it drop to the floor. Her eyes widened in anger-or perhaps it was fear. She craned her neck around, staring at Allana, and began to convulse. Jacen quickly pulled Sing's lightsaber from her unresisting hand, then held the still-ignited tip to the assassin's neck.


The rest of the fight is essentially Jacen defending both of them from Sing while unarmed and doing everything in his power to stop her killing Allana. He was more focused on protecting her than fighting Sing and performed just fine. So Xiggy, a lesson next time not to take things out of context. What have we learned.

>Caedus started off at a positional disadvantage with his eye being burned and getting injured yet still recovered due to drawing off pain and force pushing her, getting disarmed in the process. Every disadvantage possible yet still held strong.

>Caedus would have roasted Sing with lightning if not for Allana, who distracted him, allowing Sing to surprise attack him.

>Despite his injuries, being totally unarmed and surprise attacked Jacen still fodderises Sing, catching onto and taking control of her arm, dislocating her knee and then nearly finishing the fight with an arm bar if not for determination to keep Sing away from Allana.

>Jacen still holds his own despite being far more interested in protecting Allana than beating Sing.

Conclusion: Jacen is far above Sing.


__________________

"We stand on a tipping point where we can choose chaos, or order"
-Jacen Solo

Old Post Dec 17th, 2018 12:07 AM
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DarthCaedus77
Invincible!

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Aboard the Anakin Solo.


 

Caedus V Mara!

quote:
Crack.

His right knee exploded with blinding pain as Mara cannoned out horizontally, Force-assisted, from a side conduit and caught his leg on the joint with her boots, ripping the tendons. As he lost his footing in the narrow passage, screaming, he found himself wedged for a second and groping for support. He lashed out with his lightsaber, shaving powdery brick from the wall. Mara dropped to the muddy floor to dodge the lightsaber, then sprang up and sprinted away down the tunnel.

It wasn't a good start. Jacen swore and made himself run after her, willing endorphins to numb his leg and telling himself that he knew she was setting up a trap. She wanted him confined, pinned down, penned.


So, the fights already started off poorly. Jacen's knee is already injured by Mara's surprise attack two seconds into the fight after the ambush. Note as well that Mara brought him to the tunnels specifically so she could pen him down in a tight space and then kill him with traps.

quote:
...


I won't bother analysing some of the other sections but will skip straight to the next physical exchange.

quote:
They said that the human body was capable of extraordinary feats of strength when in extremis. For a Jedi, it was something else entirely.

Jacen Solo wasn't ready to die, not now, not so close to his ascendance, and not in a stinking drain like vermin.

He deflected the energy bolt with one last surge of the Force and sent the rubble erupting off his crushed and bleeding body like a detonation. Bricks hammered the walls and rained fragments, knocking Mara flat like a bomb blast. She made an animal noise that was more anger than pain and flailed for a moment as she tried to get up.

The effort froze Jacen for two vital seconds. But he knew if he didn't get up now and fight back, Mara would come in for the kill, again and again, until he was worn down and too weak to fend her off.

He scrambled to his feet, staggering more than standing, and suddenly understood.

It was Mara who had to die to fulfil his destiny.

Killing her was the test: the words of the prophecy were meaningless, and at a visceral level he knew that her death was the pivotal act. He didn't know how, and this wasn't the time to stop and think about it. He surrendered totally to instinct for the first time in ages. Whatever guided a Sith's hand had to guide him now.


Jacen throws off the rubble and is ready to engage Mara, fuelled by determination.

quote:
But he was hurt, and badly.


This is despite his rather severe injuries from the collapse of the tunnel and Mara's kick to his knee just prior.

quote:
Ben ... he didn't know where Ben fitted into this, but now he knew he did, as surely as he knew anything. Jacen didn't care, because he knew he had to kill Mara now and nothing else would make sense until he did that.

He fumbled for his lightsaber and thumbed it into life again. Mara was already back on her feet, coming at him with the shoto and vibroblade, brick dust and black-red blood snaking down her forehead from a scalp cut. She leapt at him with the shoto held left-handed, fencing-style, seared the angle of his cheekbone, and caught him under the tip of chin with the vibroblade as he jerked back.


Mara then immediately injures Jacen further by catching him off guard with an attack from a vibroblade. Mara is in peak condition and fresh, meanwhile Jacen has been cut across the face, had his knee injured and the ceiling of the tunnel dropped on him. She holds every advantage possible and the real duel hasn't even began yet.

quote:
She shouldn't have been able to get near him. He had total mastery, and she was just athletic and fast. He pushed back at her in the Force, sending her crashing against a wall with a loud grunt, but she kept coming at him, one-two, one-two with the shoto and the blade, and he was being driven back, his strength ebbing. He needed space to fight.


Despite everything Jacen still performs admirably, holding her off. The last sentence is probably the most important though. Space. Mara is only overpowering Jacen due to his extensive injuries making him a physical wreck in a tight space, where most of the duel relies on strength not skill, Jacen despite his injuries likely would have beaten Mara but due to the nature of the environment he's losing, and badly.

quote:
He drew his dart gun and fired one after the other, but Mara scattered all four needles in a blur of blue light. They fell to the ground. He turned and scrambled through the collapsed brick, using the Force to hurl debris up at her from the floor of the passage while she leapt from block to boulder to chunk of masonry, until she Force-leapt onto his back and brought him down.


Jacen tries to fall back on darts and throwing debris but that doesn't stop the inevitability of a close quarters exchange.

quote:
They rolled. This wasn't a duel: it was a brawl.


It's not even a traditional lightsaber duel but a brawl relying on physical strength and with Jacen't injuries, there's nothing worse to happen.

quote:
She thrust her vibroblade up under his chin and he jerked his head to one side, feeling the tip skate from his jaw to his hairline as it missed his jugular. He couldn't draw the weapons he needed. He was losing blood, losing strength, waning, flailing his lightsaber to fend her off. It was almost useless in such a close-quarters struggle. Mara, manic and panting, flicked the shoto to counter every desperate stabbing thrust.


Another confirmation of the fact that this isn't a fight reliant on skill but brute strength and Jacen's strength is failing. His lightsabre is useless in such a close quarters tunnel. Despite all this Jacen has still been holding his own for this whole exchange.

quote:
"Ben . . . I'll see you dead first. . . before . . . you get . . . Ben."

Jacen was on the knife-edge between dying and killing. They grappled, Force-pushed, Force-crushed: he threw her back again, trying to Force-jolt her spine and paralyze her for a moment, but somehow she deflected it and bricks flew out of the wall as if someone had punched them through from the other side. She almost Force-snatched the lightsaber from his hand, but even with his injuries he hung on to it. He wouldn't die. He couldn't, not now.

"You can't beat me," he gasped. "It's not meant to be."

"Really?" Mara snarled. "I say it is."

Then she launched herself at him-unthinking, a wild woman, hair flying-and he Force-pushed to send her slamming against a pillar in midleap. But the battering he'd taken and the ferocity of her relentless attack had blinded him to danger from another quarter. As he lurched backward to avoid her, his legs went from under him and he stumbled into a gaping crack opened up by the subsidence. He fell badly: red-hot pain seared from ankle to knee. His lightsaber went flying. Pain could be ignored, but the moment it took him to get to his feet again was enough for Mara to right herself and come back at him with the shoto and plunge it into the soft tissue just under the end of his collarbone.


Jacen is still fighting level with her despite being battered by physical stength due to the tight space and injuries and only gets floored due the environment, ceenting the idea that even with his laundry list of injuries Jacen would have won if not for the tight space and environment.

quote:
Lightsaber wounds hurt a lot more than he ever imagined. Jacen screamed. He summoned his own weapon back to his hand and Mara crashed into him, knocking him flat again and pinning him down. Her vibroblade stopped a hand span from his throat as he managed to grab her hair and drag her face nearer and nearer to his lightsaber. She struggled to pull back, hacking at him with the shoto but blocked by his dwindling Force power each time.

Her vibroblade grazed his neck. He fumbled in his belt for a dart. She jerked back with a massive effort, leaving him clutching a handful of red hair, and the only thing that crossed his mind as she arched her back and held her arms high to bring both shoto and vibroblade down into his chest was that she would never, ever harm Ben.

Jacen stared into her eyes and instantly created the illusion of Ben's face beneath her. She blinked.

It gave him the edge for that fraction of a moment. It was long enough to ram the poison dart into her leg with its protective plastoid cone still in place.

It was just a small needle, ten centimeters long. He stabbed her so hard that the sharp end punched through the cone and the fabric of her pants.

Mara gasped and looked down at her leg as if she was puzzled rather than hurt. The dart quivered as she moved, and then fell to the floor.


Jacen then wins via creating an illusion after being battered some more then cheap shotting her with a dart. Mara won to all intents and purposes, but only because of a multitude of factors including excessive injury, environmental disadvantage and a brawl like fight with Jacen's stength ebbing.

What have you learned here Xiggy?

>Mara is laughably far below peak Jacen.
>Mara is still below excessively injured Jacen and would have lost on even ground with a wide open space without the environment to help her and him fighting her in a tight space that relied more on strength than skill.

Conclusion: Don't omit context.


__________________

"We stand on a tipping point where we can choose chaos, or order"
-Jacen Solo

Last edited by DarthCaedus77 on Dec 17th, 2018 at 12:22 AM

Old Post Dec 17th, 2018 12:07 AM
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DarthCaedus77
Invincible!

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Aboard the Anakin Solo.


 

Caedus V Katarn And The Strike Team!

quote:
He sensed Katarn's attack, threw up his blade in a block so well practiced that his muscle memory could have performed it while he slept. With his free hand, he gestured at the Bothan Jedi. She was suddenly airborne, hurtling sideways to slam into the Falleen, knocking them both down.

Katarn's blade struck his, rebounded with a snap-hiss. and came around from the other side as the Jedi Master executed a lightning-fast spin. Caedus stepped back from it. not engaging the blade. He watched the blade flash harmlessly past him.


Ok, so the opening of the fight. Caedus is demonstratedly superior to Kyle in swordsmanship as I'll be covering throughout. The first indicator of this comes in the first section. Caedus negates Kyle with no effort while simultaneously ragdolling another member of the team. If Katarn was close to Caedus then surely Caedus shouldn't be able to negate his attacks so easily without even trying and while multitasking.

quote:
He stepped forward again into a side kick, aimed not at Katarn but at the onrushing Valin Horn. His boot heel caught the Jedi Knight on the point of his chin, knocking Horn backward off his feet. Two seconds had passed since the attack began.


Caedus then floors a Jedi with ease. You think the team xan stalemate Caedus in sabers yet what have they achieved so far in the two seconds since the fight started? Absolutely nothing accept a sword strike that was easily parried by Caedus. What has Caedus achieved? Easily negating Katarn's saber strike and ragdolling a Jedi before flooring another with a kick. First two seconds clearly paints Caedus as superior.

quote:
...


quote:
In one sense, it was a beautiful and brilliant thing to see. The five combatants moved as though they'd been choreographing this event for years and had planned, all along, that the two sides would somehow be even.


This is perhaps your favourite line but what does it actually tell us. Your refusal to acknowledge the context of it is hilarious. The third person on looker observes the fight for absolutely zero period of time beyond a couple seconds and in those seconds the combatants look even, however you don't seem to realise that there is the opening of the fight and then what follows where Caedus is handily above the team.

quote:
Ten seconds.

Caedus rolled out of Katarn's kick to his head, catching a scrape along his cheek, and swung at the Master's leg, but Kolir's blade intercepted his before it bit into flesh. His strength batted her weapon away, but she had deflected his blow and spared Katarn an amputation.


Kyle's next attack barely scrapes Caedus and is once again rendered moot with him nearly losing his leg. The fact is he would have lost it but let me throw you a bone and say that somehow Kyle planned that knowing he would be protected. If we take your version Kyle was putting himself in riskier positions to have a better shot at beating Caedus knowing that the team would shield him and help him along and they coordinate perfectly yet still fails to gain any kind of an advantage over Caedus. He barely scrapes his cheek here and later you'll see how totally, helplessly outclassed the team are. At the present time Caedus has floored a team member, avoided two of Katarn's attacks with the second barely scraping his cheek and not doing shit, and ragdolled another team member, generally performing as a solid superior. The team have fought on even keel with Caedus for a few seconds and have scrapeds his cheek before barely failing to shield Katarn from Caedus, with him nearly losing a leg and the blade being batted aside.

quote:
They're coordinating. Good for them. Bad for me.


Again one of your favourite lines. Caedus acknowledges the teams coordination is a problem, doesn't mean he's not utterly eclipsing them without difficulty contrary to your remarks. And the coordinating line still doesn't mean Katarn meant to get his leg nearly chopped off lmao.

quote:
Caedus heard a siren-an oncoming GAG vehicle. No, two-maybe three.

Then, from the corner of his eye, he saw the first oncoming vehicle, an aging Sentinel-class armored shuttle. It was yellow, with spots of rust. He could not make out its markings without looking at it, but he knew it was not in GAG or Alliance colors. Entering airspace above the plaza, it began a dangerously steep and fast repulsorlift descent. Behind it came three GAG airspeeders, one of them firing a top-mounted laser at the shuttle.

Ah. So they were not responding with brilliant speed to an alarm. They were chasing the Jedi escape vehicle.


Less relevant to the fight itself.

quote:
Caedus swung at Horn, a blow meant not to connect but to cause the young Jedi to flinch away into the path of the Falleen, which he did. While they were interfering with each other, Caedus gestured at the Bothan Jedi, hurling her toward Katarn.


Further indication of Caedus's superiority to the team as if it was needed Caedus makes short work of their coordination, making two of them interfere with each other before absolutely ragdolling the other.

quote:
Katarn hurled his lightsaber off to the side and caught Hu'lya with both hands, preventing her from falling, prepared to pull her out of harm's way if Caedus followed through.

Caedus did not. He kept his senses on Katarn's light-saber, and, when it vectored to fly toward him from the side, he negligently swatted it away with his own blade.


Katarn's next attack is casually swatted aside by Caedus as well further demonstrating the two are not on the same level. It's not just Caedus negating Katarn's attacks while making his team look like fools that makes me think Caedus is laughably far above them but it's the ease with which he's doing it. All of Kyle's attacks are parried by Caedus without any real effort on his part.

quote:
Fifteen seconds.


And in those fifteen seconds Caedus has demonstrated firm superiority to the team. Quick recap/summary. Caedus has ragdolled a Jedi while effortlessly negating Katarn's attack, sent a Jedi flying with a kick, avoided Kyle's kick with ease, scrwed up the teams coordination, casually ragdolled another Jedi and once again easily negated Kyle's attack for a third time.

Katarn and his strike team of fodder have briefly scraped Caaedus's cheek, fought on par with him for a couple seconds and not died yet.

Doesn't take a genius to realise who has performed better and that this team have been effortlessly and one sidedly stomped.

quote:
Caedus gave Katarn and Hu'lya a little smile. "You could save yourselves a lot of pain by telling me now where Luke has set up the new Jedi headquarters. I swear, when you are in my hands, you will answer that question."
The Bothan got her feet back under her and stood at the ready.

Katarn caught his returning lightsaber. "Meaning you will torture us to death. Are you listening to yourself, Jacen? Do you even know who you are anymore?"

"I do. It's you who have no idea who I am."


Dialogue exchange.

quote:
He felt Force energy growing within Mithric and Horn. He gestured, telekinetically yanking the Bothan forward, positioning her between him and them. He felt their Force exertion as it was suddenly cut off.


Caedus then ragdolls the Jedi again.

quote:
Katarn advanced, lightsaber at the ready. Caedus withdrew before him. With part of his awareness, he was keeping track of the four inbound vehicles, plotting their trajectories. . .


Caedus is keeping track of the environment, everyone else is ignoring it.

quote:
One of the GAG vehicles was circling ahead and to starboard of the descending shuttle. Its arc, intended to put it toward the bow of the shuttle so it could fire on the cockpit, would bring it near the combatants, just a few meters above them. The pilot's maneuver was smooth, the vehicle clearly under control. Caedus could see the Jedi barely registering its presence, since it did not figure into the combat.


By comparison everyone else forgets about it.

quote:
Caedus reached out a hand as if intending to hurl Katarn away from him. The Master raised his own hand, a deflecting gesture. But Caedus exerted himself against the oncoming GAG speeder, yanking it down and toward all of them.


quote:
A moment's inattention or focus elsewhere. That's all it ever took. By the time Katarn felt the speeder coming toward him-spinning, its stern a mere two meters from his back-it was already too late for him to send a command even to Force-augmented nerves and muscles. His face changed with the awareness of danger.

Then the speeder's port quarter hit his back, hurling him forward to slam into Caedus. The speeder, continuing its out-of-control motion, slid through the location of the other Jedi, knocking Hu'lya to the permacrete, causing Horn and Mithric to leap to safety.

Katarn now stood so close to Caedus that every facial feature was visible, every scar and line in his weathered face, every hair on his brow, mustache, and beard.

Caedus felt a rush of satisfaction, enjoyment, as Katarn's expression turned from one of surprise to pain. Katarn looked down to see Caedus's lightsaber buried to its hilt in his chest.

A noise, something halfway between a groan and a death rattle, emerged from Katarn's lips. Smiling, Caedus yanked his lightsaber free and let the stricken Jedi Master fall face-first on the pavement.


Now I know everyone thinks this is a cheapshot and not a real victory but frankly it's irrelevant and doesn't change anything. Caedus still displayed firm superiority to this team throughout the whole fight, as shown above.


__________________

"We stand on a tipping point where we can choose chaos, or order"
-Jacen Solo

Old Post Dec 17th, 2018 12:08 AM
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DarthCaedus77
Invincible!

Registered: Oct 2018
Location: Aboard the Anakin Solo.


 

quote:
Caedus hadn't felt the blaster bolt coming. His concentration was slipping.

And this madman of a Falleen Jedi was starting to beat down his parries. His strength was slipping.

He wasn't yet recovered from his duel with Luke.


Perhaps the most relevant line in the entire fight. Caedus still wasn't recovered from his fight with Luke which is the reason he got tagged and why his strength slipped further than it should have. You've attempted to discredit it by posting the below quote.

quote:
So when Niathal said he did not look well, she was correct. He keenly felt his worst injury, not the vibroblade wound, not the scalp tear, not the kidney damage. All three were healing, all three were the kind of pain that strengthen him.


But which do you think will be more reliable. The quote about his injuries affecting him in an actual combat scenario or the quote about his injuries not affecting him while he's not fighting. I somehow think the former. You also brought up it not being mentioned until Caedus was injured further but this has what relevance exactly. SK's exhaustion wasn't mentioned later in his fight, does that mean we discount that as a factor too. Of course not, we know his injuries were a factor otherwise they wouldn't have been brought up. It wasn't just the new injuries but the old one's too and there's no reason for a new injury to suddenly affect his old one's, meaning they were a present, significant factor throughout the whole fight. Lastly you've used the below quote to discredit Caedus.

quote:
Three Jedi Knights: the younger Horn, the Falleen Mithric, the Bothan Hu’lya. He resisted the urge to snort. Separately or collectively, these Jedi Knights were no match for him.

Katarn, though, was a threat.


The thing is your omitting context to the Katarn was a threat quote. He also laments how laughable the team are by comparison to him even as a collective just prior. It doesn't mean Kyle is close to Caedus just that he is a threat relative to the fodder strike team he had as backup, not that that means he's close to Caedus since Caedus laughed at the thought of them engaging him.

So what have you learned for the last time Xiggy?

>The team were nowhere close to Caedus including Kyle as demonstrated by the number of physical blows he lands on them, ragdolling them with TK repeatedly and negating their attacks with ease while destroying their coordination and aren't close to him.

>Your entire case is built upon out of context quotes.

>Caedus was injured enough to affect his performance overall.

What have you learned Overall?

Don't lowball and take feats out of context.


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Old Post Dec 17th, 2018 12:09 AM
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Necromancer76
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I'd say Caedus is around Revan and Darth Tenebrous level. Not too sure tho.


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Old Post Dec 17th, 2018 02:48 AM
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DarthCaedus77
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Lightsaber Duellist: Between beating Sing in 4 moves while unarmed, surprised and injured, making Katarn and his team look like a bunch of idiots with ease again while injured, fighting Mara in a more brawl like fight in a tight space while incredibly injured and stalemating an amped Jaina twice while injured and holding an upper hand over non amped Jaina while injured Caedus is definitely Windu level as a saber fighter.

TK Wielder: Confirmed to be more powerful than Vader though they are ultimately on a similar level.

Telepathic: Between UnuThul saying he can no longer contain a pre prime Jacen and Jacen's own top tier telepathy feats he's definitely on a high level, exact placement relative to other characters, unsure though.

Force Lightning: Not sure exactly where but overwhelming Jaina while massively injured is a great feat.

Force Barrier: Same as TK.

Overall Combatant: Top tier imo, in the space between Plagueis/Windu and Yoda based off his feats and accolades which are extremely impressive.


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Old Post Dec 18th, 2018 10:51 PM
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CuckedCurry

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just chocked on thin air

Old Post Dec 18th, 2018 11:18 PM
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DarthCaedus77
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CuckedCurry
just chocked on thin air


Hope you get better soon buddy.


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Old Post Dec 18th, 2018 11:40 PM
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Zamp
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quote:
Lightsaber wounds hurt a lot more than he ever imagined. Jacen screamed. He summoned his own weapon back to his hand and Mara crashed into him, knocking him flat again and pinning him down. Her vibroblade stopped a hand span from his throat as he managed to grab her hair and drag her face nearer and nearer to his lightsaber. She struggled to pull back, hacking at him with the shoto but blocked by his dwindling Force power each time.

Her vibroblade grazed his neck. He fumbled in his belt for a dart. She jerked back with a massive effort, leaving him clutching a handful of red hair, and the only thing that crossed his mind as she arched her back and held her arms high to bring both shoto and vibroblade down into his chest was that she would never, ever harm Ben.

1st hand: summoned his own weapon back to his hand
2nd hand: managed to grab her hair
3rd hand: fumbled in his belt for a dart

jacen has a third hand confirmed for strongest human duelist: 3 > 2


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Old Post Dec 19th, 2018 03:54 AM
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Xiggy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
Adressing Caedus's low showings!

Caedus Reigns! Ok, so Xiggy, time to put an end to you.


Merry Belated Christmas Present.

I disagree with the preface - that these are low showings. They're an aggregate of his fights throughout the series. Struggles with this level of fodder on a regular basis reflects badly on him. The stipulations don't come close to justifying this. And sometimes the stipulations are made up on your part. Against Aurra Sing, you've juxtaposed his injuries, positional disadvantage and disarmament as if she wasn't the responsible party. That they were unfair edges due to surprise. This is simply not the case.


Your Claim :


quote:
Ok, so the fight opens with Sing catching Jacen off guard and immediately kicking him so hard he breaks a table and is lying on the floor disadvantaged badly.

[..]

So here's the funniest part. This fight has been littered with context, Sing holding the advantage due to a surprise attack that left Jacen in a disadvantaged position



The Events of LOTF :

quote:
Sing was already whirling, leaping toward him with her crimson blade coming around at neck height. Jacen brought his lightsaber up automatically and blocked, then pulled the detonator's thumb slide back.

He never saw whether the activation light darkened. Suddenly Sing's knee was sinking into his stomach, driving the breath from his lungs and sending him tumbling over a couch. The detonator clattered to the floor somewhere in the galley. He came down on a beverage table, smashing it apart, then Sing was over him, her crimson blade arcing down


LOTF



So he wasn't caught of guard. He knew she was attacking a several paces away. He is aware of the fight and having blocked the opener, should be expecting a follow up. He might be misguided but not a brain dead Sith-boy. He knows that a fight doesn't cease after one clash of weapons. Are you going to tell me that a Plagueis~Yoda combatant can't fend off Aurra while flicking a hand-held detonator switch - not even looking at the device in question? Yet Dooku can fend off Obi Wan while pressured by Anakin. Maul thrashes Ayla Secura while engaged with Mace. The reality is that he just wasn't reflexive enough to avoid getting floored here. Just like he wasn't good enough to instantly recover when she rounded on him while he was down. For example - a near exhausted Dooku turned his fall into a backflip when Anakin surprised him with a kick. All better feats against better characters. Aurra Sing does indeed have parity to his Force augmentation. If she could press his blade blade down close to his eye in a saber lock, then there's not likely to be a large disparity in their strength, even with the leverage advantage. She clearly can contend with his speed as further evidenced here :

quote:
Instead of spinning past as he feinted, Jacen cartwheeled over her blade and came down on the other side. Sing reversed her attack so fast he barely had time to grab her wrist, much less turn her own weapon against her as he had intended.

LOTF



The fact is that Aurra is so low on the totem poll in comparison to Plagues ~ Yoda. Anything other than a flawless speed blitzing victory is embarrassing. She would not even be able to perceive the true top tiers. But even high tiers like Maul and Dooku would still devote a single negligent attack to swat her aside. Yet Jacen here is illicitly too slow to control the fight as he intends, and could barely catch her wrist. If Force augmentation is a loose proxy for power, Aurra is indeed around Jacen's level. The fight itself is evidence of that. What you've done is fudge the details of said fight, which can be better summarised in order here :


- Aurra attacks, Jacen Parries
- She winds him with a kick, sends him crashing on a table
- While he's on the floor she attacks him again
- They saber-lock
- He just about prevents the blade from catching his eye
- He's vision is very briefly impaired by afterglow, which fades quickly
- She kicks him around for a bit with a spiked toe cap
- He empowers himself from the pain and force pushes her
- She disarms him while being force pushed
- He's inevitably to weak to incap her with TK
- He opts for lightning
- Alana bursts in, he discards lighting
- Sing charges him
- He feints her, she takes the bait
- He cartwheels over her head
- As he's landed, she spins round
- He barely catches her wrist
- He wasn't fast enough to execute the manoeuvre he intended
- He buckles her knew with a kick
- She's still fighting though
- He intended to break her arm
- Alana injects Aurra with a sedative agent


The only hinderance here is one he places on himself - the restriction of Force lighting. But as Aurra wasn't phased by the Force push. She probably could have deflected lightning with a barrier or with her lightsaber. The funniest part is that the battle ended with Jacen with the advantage - not with a personal victory. We know he intended to break her arm, but he also intended to turn he blade against her before that, which didn't work. Even if the fight does end there, he wins not because of greater power but because he's a smarter fighter, more skilled and has a useful ability to chanel pain. The final kick he delivered messes with her footwork permanently... while the injuries he sustained empower him.

So your apparent gripe with me is laughable :

quote:
What have you learned Overall?

Don't take feats out of context


When your final summarisation of the fight is this :

quote:
beating Sing in 4 moves while unarmed, surprised and injured


The reality is that Ayla Secura scored a much more decisive victory sans lighting. And some Rebellion era novel (can't remember the name) claimed Aurra's prime was during the PT. On a Gillardian scale, you want Jacen to be a low / middling 9 while he has trouble here against a high 6 ~ low 7. The best you can say here is that he's a mid-high 7. And I don't think there's canonical evidence of some massive spike in growth from here till Invincible either.

_


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Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 02:07 AM
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Xiggy
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Regarding Mara

The big point is that being better - even decisively better - than this opponent on neutral ground is still buke. If the premise is Caedus ~ Yoda ~ Plagueis than superiority over Mara isn't even worth mentioning. But given how weak-sauce she is upon closer inspection I'd say anything other than a ragdolling is huge black mark against the idea. Even considering his injuries. A demonstration of her power :

quote:
“The rumbling began. She brought down both sections of tunnel, before and behind, with a massive exertion in the Force that made her breathless. She didn’t hear him call out. Even in the damp conditions, clouds of fine debris filled the air and made her choke.

[..]

There was whimpering and the chunk-chunk sound of the last falling bricks. She didn’t expect that weight of debris from a low ceiling to cause impact injury, but to engulf and immobilize him. He wouldn’t be dead—yet.


LOTF


The tunnel in question :

quote:
From here, the vaulted ceiling became lower, and even Mara had to run at a crouch. It wasn’t the place to swing a standard lightsaber. The tunnels were in poor condition, and the brick arches were starting to sag and collapse in places.

LOTF



So it takes all her strength to bring down two small sections of a very tiny and poorly structured tunnel, becoming breathless after the act. She claims the impact is determined by the weight of the bricks and the short drop, as oppose to some drastic acceleration on her part. She also believed the momentum of those bricks wouldn't even cause impact injury - although it did and this is also bad for Caedus too. So she's just a plain wimp when it comes to Force power. Possibly weaker than Aurra. Certainly weaker other Jedi with better feats executed with less strain. Such as the Jedi Master who collapsed two buildings on (a very injured) Malgus. Burying him under a "mountain" of Sci-Fi concrete and steel :

quote:
The Jedi held his ground. At twenty meters, the Jedi raised his lightsabers aloft to either side and drew them both down with a flourish. Too late the rumble of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus's anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparisteel crashed down on him from either side of the street [..] Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble.

[..]

he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash into the adjacent buildings.

[..]

Malgus could have ended the Jedi in any of several ways, but he needed the satisfaction of a lightsaber kill.



The Third Lesson




Some things to note :

- Malgus had only hours ago came from fighting an entire battle
- He literally just emerged from rubble having had a small mountain collapsed on him by Satele Shan
- He's suffering severe lacerations, burns and permanent organ damage which need extensive cybernetic reparation later on
- Despite his injuries travels to the city and this new Jedi collapses two buildings on him
- He clears the avalanche of rubble with TK sending it crashing into other buildings
- The impact hasn't caused him any harm
- This Jedi - who's demonstrably more powerful than Mara - is at his mercy with any execution of his choosing
- He duels with him first, kicks him aside having sensed another random Jedi in the force, chokes the second Jedi and finally fries the original assailant with lighting
- He's twenty years form his prime
- This includes a clearly articulated power upgrade in Decieved


Hope!Malgus comes out looking vastly better. He has worse premeditated wounds that are actually justified by their cause. He's fighting a stronger opponent who he can dispose with his force powers. The only thing that's missing is the cramped space of a tunnel and Mara's skill. However, if Caedus was so much more powerful than Malgus - as you'd want him to be - he'd use TK to excavate the old tunnel as well as whatever amount of soil rests above it and create the space he desperately needs. In the same manner Malgus exploded the mountain of all that steel and concrete in the air and onto other buildings. Furthermore, the cramped horizontal space stifles Jacen's dueling far more than his Force attacks. Which he tried against Mara several times... and failed. Even in moments when there was some distance between them he could not get the upper hand :

quote:
She shouldn't have been able to get near him. He had total mastery, and she was just athletic and fast. He pushed back at her in the Force, sending her crashing against a wall with a loud grunt, but she kept coming at him, one-two, one-two with the shoto and the blade, and he was being driven back, his strength ebbing. He needed space to fight.

LOTF


quote:
Jacen was on the knife-edge between dying and killing. They grappled, Force-pushed, Force-crushed: he threw her back again, trying to Force-jolt her spine and paralyze her for a moment, but somehow she deflected it and bricks flew out of the wall as if someone had punched them through from the other side. She almost Force-snatched the lightsaber from his hand, but even with his injuries he hung on to it. He wouldn't die. He couldn't, not now.

LOTF




Switch broken Caedus with broken Malgus and the dude would have just rag dolled, force choked or Force lightninged Mara. Jacen couldn't even prevent her from coming close to him. But more importantly Malgus wouldn't have been wounded when she collapsed the low ceiling of a tunnel on him, unlike Jacen, who's "badly hurt" and "broken" after the affair. Jacen is certainly weaker than Malgus here, but also weaker than many adversaries that have tanked bigger, unexpected impacts with less damage done. Like Ventress :

quote:
Howling in pain, the rancor staggered backwards. Ventress charged at Anakin, unaware that the beast was almost upon her. The rancor collapsed on top of Ventress, and Anakin dashed away to help Ahsoka.


- TCW Junior Novelization



Ventress wasn't aware that a Bull Rancor was coming down on her. Yet she survives, Force pushes the beast asunder and is apparently fine after the impact. The obvious excuse for Jacen here would be that it was a surprise attack. That any active barrier couldn't have been erected in time to protect himself. It's probably true... but irrelevant. Because the existence of passive/lesser force barriers have been documented throughout source books and other material. This can explain the unnatural durability of Jedi. Jacen however, was expecting Mara to set a trap to "pin him down" especially after she delivered a surprise kick to his knee joint :

quote:
Jacen swore and made himself run after her, willing endorphins to numb his leg and telling himself that he knew she was setting up a trap. She wanted him confined, pinned down, penned

LTOF



We can at least assume he's using the baseline level of power all jedi use to enhance their durability with. You really have to ask yourself whether a true "top tier" wouldn't prevail against the circumstances and fail to fodderize such a demonstrably weak foe in Mara. They would of course, and so would people weaker than the highest echelons of Jedi/Sith. If Malgus and Ventress are out of reach by a simple features comparison, then maybe getting shitcanned by a random Mandolorion isn't such an anomaly for Caedus.

What you have learned:

Darth Caedus : Popular with the ladies. Feeble with the fighting.


_


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Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 02:07 AM
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Xiggy
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Regarding the Katarn Strike team. I'll keep this short. To only address parts of the fight where Katarn wasn't under a speeder. This is because the relevance of Caedus taking way too long to defeat three featless Jedi on their own - in any circumstance - speaks for itself. Firstly we do have summarised accounts of the short sabre-battle... before Caedus opted for TK. The first is from a Caedus cultist. The next is from an out of universe source within Legends.

DC77 fanfic :

quote:

Again one of your favourite lines. Caedus acknowledges the teams coordination is a problem, doesn't mean he's not utterly eclipsing them without difficulty contrary to your remarks.

quote:
Katarn's next attack is casually swatted aside by Caedus as well further demonstrating the two are not on the same level. It's not just Caedus negating Katarn's attacks while making his team look like fools that makes me think Caedus is laughably far above them but it's the ease with which he's doing it


The events of LOTF :


(please log in to view the image)

So we know that whatever brief fighting there was taxed both Jacen and Kyle. That the fighting was even according to Seha dorvald. And that after Jacen realised how the team were coordinating, he perceived himself at a disadvantage. Given that the duel was tiring him out, he probably realised the sword fight would eventually be his undoing... because even though Katarn was also being taxed, the latter can rely more on his team-mates while gathering strength. And with Katarn present, the best Jacen can manage is paltry Force shoves and Karate kicks on the weaker team members in question. Which of course does nothing to the fodder Jedi and they recover from these inflictions instantly (a negative feat in itself). All the while Jacen is spending his Force energies tickling the Noob Triumvirate.

Your apparent contention to the above is :

1 - Jacen could block Katarn's opener with a Parry well embedded in his muscle memory
2 - He force shoved one fodder into another (and did so again)
3- He kicked Valin Horn square in the face

(please log in to view the image)

Regarding 1 - The first parry Jacen executed doesn't prove his superiority to Kyle. The first attack is the easiest to anticipate and react to. And that Jacen could have performed the manoeuvre in his sleep (hyperbole) is evidence of how well embedded the block is in his muscle memory - i.e - he's practiced it a lot. not that Katarn is weak. After all the strike Kyle opened with could have just as easily been something exercised so often that it comes naturally to him. There's nothing to be taking from this.

Regarding points 2 and 3 - you're biggest failure in juxtaposition when it comes to Star Wars is not comparing Jacen with other fights. Because in every instance where one opponent faces a mixed bag of Jedi, the fodder always get kicked about. You want paltry kicks and trip ups to mean Caeuds is > the entire team. But that's exactly what it doesn't mean. For example :

- Dooku removed Kenobi with Tk against him and Anakin. Is he decisively better than the collective duo?
- Maul could kick Ayla Secura while blocking Mace windu. Is Maul decisively better than Mace?
- Jedi Master Judd tripped-up Savage Opress while fighting Maul. Is he better than Duo?

Regarding 3 again - That Valin gets kicked square in the face by Jacen and doesn't immediately have every bone in his face broken and his kneck snapped, means we can take him far away from Plagues tier, probably even Dooku tier. What's worse is that the kick doesn't even phase the kid. He's a scub, yet immediately rejoins the fight. Not even Jango Fett would have allowed for such a misgiving

(please log in to view the image)

A week ago I may have thought this was a lowball. But it would explain why Caedus gets pawned by a random mandalorian in Revelations.

The obvious interpretation is that Caedus needed to remove Katarn. And while he's not powerful enough to do so through any direct manner, an indirect manner serves his purpose fine. Sith take gratification in direct superiority to their adversaries, the manner in which Katarn is disposed of proves that the team with Katarn are not easily dealt with. And that his original comment - that Katarn was a threat - was always correct. And not some arbitrary threat mind - a grave threat. We know this is true, because even with Katarn down and Kolir retreated, one of the Jedi knights in question could supersede Caedus' force augmented strength under the right circumstances - him crying over a graised knee, some healed scar tissue and having to concentrate on potential blaster fire. If you take Gillards scale and (in your opinion) imagine Caedus to be a low-middling 9 and that a random Knight would be a 4-5, you' d have to argue the circumstances could lower him 4-5 levels. But the more likely idea is that Caedus is weak enough to be susceptible to a situation like that in the first place.


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Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 02:09 AM
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DarthCaedus77
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Give me a few hours, I'll make short work of this mess you call a post.


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Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 02:20 AM
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HP Legend
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Absolutely beautiful. Good work. I can now lowball for my CaV.


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Last edited by HP Legend on Dec 28th, 2018 at 02:23 AM

Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 02:21 AM
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Lord GOAT
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Damn, DC got buried.


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Old Post Dec 28th, 2018 02:23 AM
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