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Best version of superman?
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
Them copying his story for herself doesn't really qualify her as a version.

That's like saying Arrow is a version of Batman, imo.

Also, iirc she knew from the start that she wasn't the last survivor of Krypton. For starters at least.



I thought you were being flatly dismissive when I first read this.
Then, for whatever reason, I happened to search "Ras Al Ghul".
Among the top hits are clips from Arrow, a few of which I watched.
I'm wondering now how the creative team of that show avoided lawsuit from the makers of "Batman Begins". I still hold to what I wrote before, but that WAS a striking point you brought up there, far more than any non-watcher of the Arrow show and the 1st Nolan Batman film would ever realize.
The arc with Ras Al Ghul, at least, is practically a re-telling of that movie

Your comment on Kara KNOWING she wasn't the last survivor of Krypton also proved very interesting. Are you aware of a mini-series entitled "Being Super", which I just found out about a night or so ago, that DC apparently released and/or began in September?


------------------
“Supergirl: Being Super,” written by Mariko Tamaki and illustrated by Joëlle Jones, is a new take on Supergirl’s origin story, but unlike the other iterations of Kara Zor-El, she has no memory of her Kryptonian heritage.

“I wanted to write a story about someone finding their way to their identity,” said Tamaki of the upcoming four-part comic book miniseries. “I wanted Kara’s connection to her past to evolve as the story went along, so I set it up that she had little to no conscious memory of it when we start.”

------------------


http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...-htmlstory.html

Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 09:23 AM
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emporerpants
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Blue, you are right, I also don't think Ultraman, Plutonian, or Blue Marvel should be considered. They are copies and not legit versions of the character Superman. So, imo, copies should not be considered in a discussion about the best version of Superman and I think it is insulting to the character to imply that the best version of him is a totally different character, no matter who that character might be. I kinda stopped paying attention to this thread after I made my point last time, so if you feel unfairly singled out, I apologize, that was not my intent.


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Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 03:02 PM
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bluewaterrider
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I did feel and was, effectively, singled out until now, Emp, so I thank you for your last post. I'll probably address some of the other issues you brought up, but I want that stated as my starting point.

Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 07:04 PM
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bluewaterrider
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You actually brought up a lot of points I think worthy of discussion.
I'll simply respond to some of these in order to start. Somebody wants to engage me on any of these, well, that's part of what the forum's for:


1. I was not and am not being silly or obtuse. At best, you could say perhaps that I was using fallacy of equivocation if YOU had posted this thread and the topic question.

But, you did not. This topic was instead posted by a member with less than 10 messages currently to their credit and is presumably a young and new member, age 25 or less. In other words, part of a generation that thinks nothing if, say, Bruce Jenner is now called a woman and is referred to as "Caitlyn".

On the comic book front?
This is the era where "Thor" is now considered the proper title of Jane Foster, even while original "Odinson" Donald Blake is wielding Norse or Asgardian weapons and having superhero adventures saving people and fighting trolls.

Just like his former girlfriend.

Who now has his name.
Which people have heavily commented on the past year or so.
Which you're no doubt aware of.

The following linked commentary is quite typical of present Thor discussions:

http://fanbros.com/not-impressed-ne...aptain-america/

Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 07:27 PM
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bluewaterrider
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I often read articles about comics, comics themselves, and sometimes, personality profiles of people who post about comics.

Often, though not always, helps me determine the poster's point of view.


The poster of this thread is interesting right off the bat, in relation to the discussion we've been having. He has the name Centaur-Superman.

Now, it's possible the original poster (OP) of this thread came up with the name on his own completely at random. Or took the name from some Silver Age story Ol' Blue had.

However, there is ALSO a story of fairly modern comic age called "Whom gods destroy" that he would have had a chance to select his name from.

Ever read that story or what it is about?



-----------------------------------
At one point during the conflict, Superman had been defeated and transformed into a centaur who debauched his way across the countryside accompanied by maenads (the female centaurs). At this point in the story, the heroes are staging the final raid against Ares' citadel, but to atone for his unwitting crimes against women, Superman must do so cast in the form of a teenage girl...
-----------------------------------

http://www.tgfa.org/comics/superman/superman.htm


Interesting, to say the least.

The story even reinforces the italicized bit and the theme of fluidity above at its climax:

(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)

Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 07:44 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by emporerpants
Supergirl is her own character, to say she is simply a different version of Superman is a disservice. Are you trying to degrade her character here blue? Wouldn't you agree that she is a character that deserves her own identity besides "another version of Superman?"



I haven't said Supergirl is simply a different version of Superman.
Yet she is a version of Superman.

I agree that she is a character that deserves her own identity besides "another version of Superman".
Still, she is a version of Superman, a female version of him, even as Blue Marvel is a black Marvel Comics version of Superman.

Perhaps using another "Black Superman" can illustrate?
Muhammad Ali was a boxer. Yet to say he was "simply" a boxer is a disservice I think you and most other people would recognize.
Ali was a character that deserved HIS own identity besides "another boxer".
But he was still a boxer.

That he was much MORE than that is not taken away with that admission.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gsDHi-vJCYs

Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 08:14 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by emporerpants


is your goal here to degrade Superman by saying that the best version of him is someone who is a totally different character? By the way, I'd say the same thing if you said Gladiator was the best version of Superman.




Worthwhile to point out, even as an excuse to give a better version of the previous clip, calling someone "the best version of Superman" is not necessarily degrading to EITHER party ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ws0MnVlQn8g

Old Post Jan 5th, 2017 08:28 PM
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-Pr-
...

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Location: Ireland.

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I thought you were being flatly dismissive when I first read this.
Then, for whatever reason, I happened to search "Ras Al Ghul".
Among the top hits are clips from Arrow, a few of which I watched.
I'm wondering now how the creative team of that show avoided lawsuit from the makers of "Batman Begins". I still hold to what I wrote before, but that WAS a striking point you brought up there, far more than any non-watcher of the Arrow show and the 1st Nolan Batman film would ever realize.
The arc with Ras Al Ghul, at least, is practically a re-telling of that movie

Your comment on Kara KNOWING she wasn't the last survivor of Krypton also proved very interesting. Are you aware of a mini-series entitled "Being Super", which I just found out about a night or so ago, that DC apparently released and/or began in September?


------------------
“Supergirl: Being Super,” written by Mariko Tamaki and illustrated by Joëlle Jones, is a new take on Supergirl’s origin story, but unlike the other iterations of Kara Zor-El, she has no memory of her Kryptonian heritage.

“I wanted to write a story about someone finding their way to their identity,” said Tamaki of the upcoming four-part comic book miniseries. “I wanted Kara’s connection to her past to evolve as the story went along, so I set it up that she had little to no conscious memory of it when we start.”

------------------


http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...-htmlstory.html


I wasn't trying to be dismissive so I'm glad you didn't take it that way.

I haven't read "Being Super" no. I don't read a lot of comics anymore.

TBH, I don't mind if people want to say Supergirl is a version of Superman. It's not the term I'd use, as I'd reserve it for characters like Earth 2 Superman, Kingdom Come Superman and so on. That's me though.


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Old Post Jan 7th, 2017 12:57 PM
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bluewaterrider
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Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider


Speaking of Krypton, if you consider that an essential part of the Superman Mythos, I'm genuinely curious as to whether you'd consider Red Son to be a version of Superman, and, if so, why...



Ever heard the term "synchronicity"?

Seems to be an amazing amount of it in this thread now, if I have the correct understanding of the definition of that term.

For you initially mentioned Supergirl's awareness of at least one other Kryptonian survivor as a disqualifier of her being a version of Superman, who knew of no others for years after he first arrived.
Then DC released a Supergirl who, fittingly, has NO awareness of Krypton and the status of any survivor save herself.
Just came out in the last 2 weeks, but you admitted you had no knowledge of it till now.

Appropriately, earlier in this thread, as demonstrated with the quote above, Red Son Superman was asked about by me, because his actual origin, not revealed till the latter part of his original series, contains conflicts with several elements generally thought essential definers of what makes Superman ...Superman.

Well. guess who just took center stage weeks after our initial discussion here whom I was unaware of till now?

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/0...oes-multiversal


A very TIMELY discussion we seem to be having now, then, if nothing else ...

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Old Post Jan 8th, 2017 08:26 PM
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abhilegend
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Yeah, Blue just hates Superman for some reason and fawns over Supergirl.

Not surprising to say in the least.


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2017 05:31 AM
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-Pr-
...

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

Stones in glass houses, Abhi.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured... the first thought forbidden... the first freedom denied – chains us all irrevocably."

Old Post Jan 9th, 2017 06:11 AM
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NewGuy01
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Old Post Jan 16th, 2017 09:04 PM
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