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Bill Cipher vs Omni-King
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RadZoa
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Bill Cipher waves his hand, and the omni king is in the afterlife

Old Post Jan 1st, 2017 12:55 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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Bill Cipher is a demonic entity of godlike power who has existed for trillions of years and originates from a dimension called the Nightmare Realm where his power is absolute. Even without a physical form he was worshiped as a god in the 4th dimension by the humans that occupied Gravity Fall's in ancient times. The leader of these humans was the Shaman Modoc, one of the many humans Bill would manipulate in an attempt to merge the Nightmare Realm with the the 4th dimension. Upon finding out about Cipher's plans Modoc lit himself on fire in order to prevent such a calamity. Not long after the rest of his tribe abandoned the valley as cursed land.

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Bill's influence in the 4th dimension is not restricted to Gravity Falls or even a single reality within that dimension. He has repeatedly stated that he possesses omnipresence and omniscience and demonstrated knowledge of our own universe.

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This is further supported by his familiarity with all knowing beings, fictional characters and real life people such as the being behind the All Knowing Mail Box, Slenderman from the Slenderman franchise and Jack the Ripper. He was also apparently the inspiration for the Egyptian Pyramids.

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Bill himself has suggested that he is both the source of human sin and the cause of the strange occurrences within the Bermuda Triangle.

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His power extends outside of the Nightmare Realm as he possessed Alex Hirsch during the reddit AMA in exchange for dreams filled with smooth jazz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKBRyNNW3u0

He also took over Alex's Twitter briefly during Wierdmaggedon and has communicated with humans from our universe numerous times speaking to them from within the show and on Hirsch's social media. Within his own realm Bill's power is absolute with the denizens of that dimensions being made up of eldritch monstrosities and being completely subservient to him.

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https://twitter.com/_alexhirsch/sta...107023048105984

In the Mindscape Bill is capable of insane reality warping feats either altering the axis of that realm so that it tilted 90 degrees or alternatively altering how the concept of gravity functioned within it.

https://gfycat.com/RashImpossibleAoudad

Even without physical form Bill possesses some power within the fourth dimension being capable of reading the minds of any unprotected being and causing a gale of wind and physical shapes to appear in front of Dipper. He may also appear uninvited within the minds of an unprotected being as seen with Stanford and Stanley Pines.

https://gfycat.com/FlatNaiveGypsymoth

But that's enough of that. On to the actual power Bill would possess during this fight.

First, it must be established that the Gravity Falls creation is an infinite multiverse which encompasses our own real life universe. The latter fact has been stated and proven by Bill in the examples provided above while Time Baby, Stanford Pines and Bill himself have confirmed its breadth.

"The portal when completed will open a gateway to infinite new worlds and herald a new era in mankind's understanding of the universe. Plus, it will probably get girls to start talking to me finally." - Journal 3.

http://kisscartoon.se/Cartoon/Gravi...de-13?id=62328, 6:45

"This is my favorite game in the whole multiverse!" - Stanford Pines.

"I CAN SEE A KALEIDOSCOPE OF TEMPORAL PROBABILITY WITH FLUCTUATING RANGE! I CAN ALSO SEE THAT THERE ARE INFINITE ALTERNATE VERSIONS OF ME IN INFINITE ALTERNATE DIMENSIONS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION WITH INFINITE VARIATION! ONE OF THEM ANSWERED BY VOMITING A STREAM OF BLOOD AND PRIME NUMBERS OUT OF HIS THIRD MOUTH!" - Bill Cipher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx2XvcvqzzU. 0:26

"If your rip in this dimension continues it could threaten the very fabric of existence!" - Time Baby.

It has also been confirmed by actual events in universe with "Blendin's Game" when Time Baby created an alternate timeline to grant Mabel and Dipper their time wish after winning Globnar. An alternate timeline is created every time a time wish is made. Globnar is a gladiatorial event that is constantly ongoing with the winner of each Globnar being granted a time wish meaning that this confirms the existence of, at the very least, innumerable alternate timelines.

As can be seen above upon gaining a physical form Bill Cipher's mere presence was viewed as a threat to the multiverse by Time Baby.

This is supported by Bill's presence causing time to be frozen within Gravity Falls and universal laws to become distorted. Some examples being sentient beings having their physical forms altered and objects gaining sentience from the weirdness waves Bill exuded.

https://youtu.be/Ot3h6yY46Go?t=135

https://gfycat.com/UnhealthyFrigidDogwoodclubgall

Bill's power which was already deemed as a threat to the stability of the multiverse merely for existing was constantly growing per Stanford.

https://youtu.be/mMa-V9LV7fo?t=204

Some examples of Bill's range and power upon manifesting form include but are not limited to

Creating weirdness bubbles that caused trans-dimensional matter alteration.

https://gfycat.com/SnappyGlamorousJaeger

Altering Gravity Falls opening theme and leaving messages for the audience signifying the effect his presence had on the Gravity Falls multiverse and further confirming Bill's influence over the real world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWvdqkl2UH4

Creating a pocket dimension where Mabel could create anything and thus possessed limitless energy.

https://youtu.be/WSjWydUKzOA?t=24

Oneshotting Time Baby who is stated to be the Ruler of Space Time and controls all beings perception of temporality.

https://gfycat.com/DentalWelcomeFairybluebird

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8llacib6...lls-74.png?dl=0

http://i.imgur.com/iZaJJ83.png?1

Finally a race of pan-dimensional extraterrestrial beings who simultaneously existed within 7 to 11 dimensions were afraid of Bill Cipher's power.

I assume this goes by real life dimensional theory which would mean that these beings exist simultaneously beyond even infinite possibilities.

http://ultraculture.org/blog/2014/1...nsions-reality/

This means they would exist in the 11th dimension which is essentially confirmation of M-Theory with the GF franchise when paired with the commonly accepted String Theory. Essentially an explanation for why the universe works the way it does. A step beyond alteration of universal concepts to the WHY and HOW of universal concepts which makes perfect sense when you consider these beings were postulated to have caused the weirdness in Gravity Falls.

All in all I think this is more then enough to suggest Bill Cipher's superiority to the Omni-King. Regardless I'm looking forward to your counter Skillz. I know it won't be anything less then excellent.


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Last edited by UCanShootMyNova on Jan 1st, 2017 at 04:33 AM

Old Post Jan 1st, 2017 04:20 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Look for a response either tomorrow or Monday. Hangover and all that. wink


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Jan 1st, 2017 04:26 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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All of my pictures. ;~;

I am an failure.


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Last edited by UCanShootMyNova on Jan 1st, 2017 at 04:32 AM

Old Post Jan 1st, 2017 04:30 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Look for a response either tomorrow or Monday. Hangover and all that. wink


Definitely. Looking forward to it.


__________________
"I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

Last edited by UCanShootMyNova on Jan 1st, 2017 at 04:32 AM

Old Post Jan 1st, 2017 04:30 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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The Omni King is the eminent God in the Dragon Ball Multiverse, vastly superceding all of the Gods/beings in the multiverse to such an extent that he could wipe it out in an instant..effortlessly. Gods of Destruction such as Lord Beerus are casually universal in power, as in his fight with Goku their clashes were causing universe busting shockwaves, and Beerus casually nullified a super-dense ball of energy that was going to annihilate Universe 7. In fact, Beerus can nullify ALL energy (hyperlink wasn't working for this one). Beerus can also casually erase beings from existence with a technique called hakai. He can even erase spectral beings. If I'm being honest, Beerus would probably erase Bill Cypher in a much similar manner, but...

Beerus is a COMPLETE and UTTER microbe to the likes of Zeno. The mere name, "Omni King" causes Beerus to shit his pants. Beerus isn't even capable of harming Zeno, (heck, no one is,) and Zeno in turn can destroy Beerus with the merest thought. Zeno has been stated by Whis to be capable of destroying ANYTHING, in an INSTANT. More importantly, in the Future Trunks arc, we see him do just THAT. That's Omni King effortlessly erasing Zamasu, (a God who became one with the universe,) destroying 12 + universes, (considering that a universe in DB is much bigger than a standard universe, given dimensions such as Heaven/Hell/the Kaioshin Realm,) and in turn all of the inactive angels, (such as Whis and Vados,) who can easily ONESHOT Beerus.

I know this was a relatively short post, but I honestly feel like that's all this thread required. Not even Bill's hype is enough to put him anywhere near the likes of the Omni King. The Omni King would erase Bill from existence with a thought.


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Last edited by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ on Jan 3rd, 2017 at 04:33 AM

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2017 04:24 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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Great post Skillz. Will have something up tommorow.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2017 04:57 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Sounds good bud. smile


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2017 05:02 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Omni King is the eminent God in the Dragon Ball Multiverse, vastly superceding all of the Gods/beings in the multiverse to such an extent that he could wipe it out in an instant..effortlessly.


Just to clarify then, the DB multiverse is only made up of 12 universes? smile

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
In fact, Beerus can nullify ALL energy (hyperlink wasn't working for this one).


While I trust you I am going to need the quote for this if only to assess the context in which it was made.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
If I'm being honest, Beerus would probably erase Bill Cypher in a much similar manner, but...


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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Beerus isn't even capable of harming Zeno, (heck, no one is,)


Is there a quote for this are we assuming that's the case based on the quote that Omni-King can destroy anything in the DB multiverse in an instant? If it's the latter then I have to bring up the point that while a being may have vast amounts of destructive power it doesn't mean their durability is equivalent. If you have a quote supporting the claim though then we should be hunk dory. Just be sure to post it in your next response.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
More importantly, in the Future Trunks arc, we see him do just THAT. That's Omni King effortlessly erasing Zamasu, (a God who became one with the universe,) destroying 12 + universes, (considering that a universe in DB is much bigger than a standard universe, given dimensions such as Heaven/Hell/the Kaioshin Realm,) and in turn all of the inactive angels, (such as Whis and Vados,) who can easily ONESHOT Beerus.


Just a few things to address here.

The alternate timeline contained the 12 universes that make up the mainstream DB multiverse, correct?

How much larger are DB universes in size in comparison to that of our own and does this apply to all of the DB universes?

How many angels exist within the mainstream DB multiverse?

I looked up the scene you were referencing in regards to Whis "oneshotting" Beerus. He knocks him out with a blow during a cartoonish scene where wasabi causes Beerus physical pain ( a scene obviously played up for laughs ). Not to mention, Whis being Beerus's martial arts trainer automatically implies that things like technique and skill actually MATTERS for a being like Beerus. If we're taking this scene seriously then Whis having around the same level of power as Beerus and managing to land a well aimed strike is certainly a reasonable conclusion to draw rather then Whis, somebody who is supposed to be Beerus's servant and attendant, possessing the power to oneshot him. This also provides further support to my point that beings with vast destructive power not necessarily having correlating levels of durability.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I know this was a relatively short post, but I honestly feel like that's all this thread required. Not even Bill's hype is enough to put him anywhere near the likes of the Omni King. The Omni King would erase Bill from existence with a thought.


Let's take a comparative look at the two then.

Bill

- Threatened existence with his mere presence in third dimensional space. Existence in Gravity Falls being an infinite multiverse that includes our own universe as stated by multiple characters and shown multiple times.

- Casually oneshotting a being who controlled the temporal perception of all beings and time within the entire multiverse.

- Showed extreme control and precision over his powers with multiple demonstrations of matter alteration and control over life.

- Created a pocket dimension capable of creating anything.

Zeno

- Destroyed an alternate timeline of the DB multiverse which is made up of 12 universes that are assumedly larger then our own.

I honestly don't see how the two compare. Bill has an INFINITELY larger depth and scope to his power. Not to mention... Does Zeno even possess reality manipulation? I mean, we've seen his destructive potential but upon looking into him I haven't come upon any examples of the Omni-King actually being able to distort the natural laws. Regardless of power if Omni King doesn't have reality manipulation I'm struggling to find a reason why Cipher couldn't simply turn him into a picture and hang him on his wall.

I think the outcome is pretty clear honestly.


__________________
"I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2017 09:42 PM
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UCanShootMyNova
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On a side note. How long do you envision this debate going? Do you want there to be a set post limit or do you want it to be ongoing? I'm fine either way.


__________________
"I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2017 09:43 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Response should be up by tomorrow.

An ongoing debate is fine. We can discuss privately whenever we think we should stop.


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 02:50 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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thumb up


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2017 03:09 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Just to clarify then, the DB multiverse is only made up of 12 universes? smile


12 universes, and a 13th universe where the other 12 reside, (the realm of the Omni King). Each Universe is bigger than your standard universe, though.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
While I trust you I am going to need the quote for this if only to assess the context in which it was made.


I'll just provide the link. It's disgusting...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...gon+ball+super+(sub)+episode+014+- +watch+dragon+ball+super+(sub)+episode+014+online+
in+high+quality_2.mp4_snapshot_05.19_%5B2015.10.15_09.33.23%5D.jpg

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Is there a quote for this are we assuming that's the case based on the quote that Omni-King can destroy anything in the DB multiverse in an instant? If it's the latter then I have to bring up the point that while a being may have vast amounts of destructive power it doesn't mean their durability is equivalent. If you have a quote supporting the claim though then we should be hunk dory. Just be sure to post it in your next response.


Nah, it's just how shit works in Dragon Ball with regards to ki, (i.e. durability is relative to destructive output,) though I suppose an example of Omni King's durability would be him tanking a Multiverse busting attack, (his own attack that destroyed the Future Trunks Multiverse).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Just a few things to address here.

The alternate timeline contained the 12 universes that make up the mainstream DB multiverse, correct?

How much larger are DB universes in size in comparison to that of our own and does this apply to all of the DB universes?

How many angels exist within the mainstream DB multiverse?


Correct.

Well, like in the picture I linked above, each universe is at least the equivalent of two standard universes, (2.2 to be more exact) in size. All of the universes have a Heaven, Hell, Kaioshin realm, etc, so the size would apply to all of the DB universes.

13. One angel for each God of Destruction, and the Grand Priest, (who's more powerful than all of the other angels, and is the strongest in the multiverse sans Zeno).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I looked up the scene you were referencing in regards to Whis "oneshotting" Beerus. He knocks him out with a blow during a cartoonish scene where wasabi causes Beerus physical pain ( a scene obviously played up for laughs ). Not to mention, Whis being Beerus's martial arts trainer automatically implies that things like technique and skill actually MATTERS for a being like Beerus. If we're taking this scene seriously then Whis having around the same level of power as Beerus and managing to land a well aimed strike is certainly a reasonable conclusion to draw rather then Whis, somebody who is supposed to be Beerus's servant and attendant, possessing the power to oneshot him. This also provides further support to my point that beings with vast destructive power not necessarily having correlating levels of durability.


It being a scene for laughs doesn't exactly mean anything. Of course things like technique and skill matter for someone like Beerus, that, again, doesn't exactly mean anything. He's still a casual universe buster. He can still casually erase people. He can still casually nullify macrocosm-busting energy. Technique and what not matters for Beerus because he enjoys fighting. The whole point of him fighting Goku is that he was looking for a fun fight. He could still certainly erase Goku if he wanted. But that wouldn't exactly be any fun, would it? smile

I suppose I should just put down the whole Beerus ~ Whis thing. Since their inception, Whis has been FAR more powerful than Beerus:

"I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15."

-Akira Toriyama.

Since the introduction of Dragon Ball Super, the gap is only widened. Whis has stopped Beerus mul-ti-ple times. Heck, here's Whis casually oneshotting Beerus, yet again. Point being, Whis can lolstomp/oneshot a casual universe buster. And Whis' father, Daishinkan, is far above Whis. And yet Omni King can oneshot ALL the Gods of Destruction/angels/universes with literally no effort. I'm sorry, but this is way above what we've actually seen from Bill.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Let's take a comparative look at the two then.

Bill

- Threatened existence with his mere presence in third dimensional space. Existence in Gravity Falls being an infinite multiverse that includes our own universe as stated by multiple characters and shown multiple times.

- Casually oneshotting a being who controlled the temporal perception of all beings and time within the entire multiverse.

- Showed extreme control and precision over his powers with multiple demonstrations of matter alteration and control over life.

- Created a pocket dimension capable of creating anything.

Zeno

- Destroyed an alternate timeline of the DB multiverse which is made up of 12 universes that are assumedly larger then our own.


Okay, so firstly:"threatened existence with his mere presence" is all well and good, but nothing actually happened. No planets were destroyed. No stars. Hell, not even a continent was affected. Things that ACTUALLY HAPPENED are far more important than things that are stated.

Time-Baby doesn't have feats of power that even come close to Super Saiyan God Goku, last I checked. If there are any, please show them.

Pathetic compared to Zeno.

Pathetic compared to Zeno.

You're gonna wanna change Zeno's feat to: Destroyed and tanked the destruction of an alternate multiverse made of 13 universes which are all vastly bigger than a standard universe, along with 13 angels that can oneshot casual universe busters, and a God that became one with the universe and was warping reality to such an extent that the present timeline was being affected as well. Did I mention Zeno did this all effortlessly?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I honestly don't see how the two compare. Bill has an INFINITELY larger depth and scope to his power. Not to mention... Does Zeno even possess reality manipulation? I mean, we've seen his destructive potential but upon looking into him I haven't come upon any examples of the Omni-King actually being able to distort the natural laws. Regardless of power if Omni King doesn't have reality manipulation I'm struggling to find a reason why Cipher couldn't simply turn him into a picture and hang him on his wall.

I think the outcome is pretty clear honestly.


Well, people like Hit can create their own parallel world to fight, and he's fodder to the likes of Beerus. Zamasu was literally an immortal spirit who was warping time and space on a multi-universal scale, and Zeno casually erased him from existence. The outcome is painfully clear, and it's Zeno who stomps. smile


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Jan 6th, 2017 05:08 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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Broken link in the second section.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2017 05:44 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Here we go:

(please log in to view the image)


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Jan 6th, 2017 06:11 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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...

...

...

You pulled a Tempest. smile


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2017 12:38 PM
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cdtm
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DB universes are about a million kilometer's diameter, as that's the stated length of snake way, and maps of the universe show it wrapping around the universe.

Further proven by the Z crew able to rocket to Namek without using any sort of warp capablity, just simple thrust. They took only six days for Goku to reach Namek like that, making the distance much, much less then one light year. Not even close.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2017 02:34 PM
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Jesus, again with this "small universe" BS.
The DB universe was multiple times proven with facts to have countless galaxies in it, and to be the same in "size" as the real one.

Get over it.


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2017 02:55 PM
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cdtm
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It's so normal sized, you can cross star systems in days/months/minutes using simple thrust. laughing out loud (I dare you to show any reference to superluminal or warp in the Namek and Saiyan sagas..)


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2017 03:12 PM
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AuraAngel
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If we give the setting our fastest ship(and really it should get faster numbers since we are infinitely less capable than the guys that would later invent a time machine), their fastest ship would be able to go at 165,000 mph. At that speed it took our craft 5 years to reach Jupiter. And if we do give it that ship, Bulma still calculates that Namek is 4339 years away from Earth.

Piccolo's ship could make it to Namek within a few seconds and turned the 4339 year trip into a light 34 day trip. Vegeta's pod could make the same distance in 21 days, more or less. Goku making it in 6 is not wholly unlikely considering the Capsule Ship was based on Goku's Saiyan pod and likely incorporated some of Brief's own tech to make the ship faster. To put all this into perspective, light takes 43 minutes to reach Jupiter.

And even the fastest ship in the universe doesn't hold a candle to the fastest thing in the Namek Saga-the Dragon Balls themselves. The Namekian Dragon Balls were able to go from Namek to Earth in under 2 minutes, which might be the single greatest speed feat in the series in terms of distance. And Whis is supposed to be faster than that given he claims he is the fastest in the universe. And if we assume that Earth Dragonballs are similar in speed, Goku is pretty fast.

Really decent speed feats besides IT were a rarity until Super but not they are unquestionably common place.


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