That is exactly what he thinks, he also enjoys trolling.
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
And the dwarves had war machines. We see Azog have them taken out via command.
You've used the logic generic orcs are greater in a Warcraft thread which you just admitted has no basis for Azog since he's the best.
No shit. We knew how this was going to end but that's the point of these gigantic against all odds fantasy hero quests. We see the heroes having to work together to take out the overall threat the orcs.
Yes, I did in the 8th grade but that's neither here nor there since this is a films only thread. Films give the characters tangibility. Peter Jackson isn't perfect but he did a fantastic job with this material and I'd definitely trust him going forward if they ever wrangled the rights to the Simarillion from the Tolkiens.
I'd definitely put Azog and Bolg's forces against the Uruk Hai, orcs who stormed Helm's Deep in a battlezone if you feel up to the task since you think the hobbit films are just inferior.
In a totally different thread. Because the average Warcraft Orc > the average LotR Orc, one-on-one. This is very clear to see.
Now, army vs army is a different story. Because LotR Orc armies have better overall cohesion than their Warcraft counterparts. They fight in formations, have war machines, archers etc., unlike the Warcraft Orcs. But none of these threads are army vs army battles.
That doesn't change the fact that they lost. If it was truly the age of the Orc, they would have prospered and taken over. The good guys in fantasy-type tales don't always win. Yes, it is part of the story. But the story told has the Orcs losing. You can't get around that. Otherwise, you could apply that logic to any movie ending you don't like and just say, "Oh, they only lost because they were the bad guys". It doesn't work like that.
It is relevant though. Fact is the LotR trilogy is a better adaptation from the books than the Hobbit films are. Jackson added a bunch of filler crap to stretch it out to 3 films. I honestly think that if he had compacted it into one solid film, removing a bunch of unnecessary clutter, it would have been better. He didn't even really want to do the films. He really wanted to do LotR, and that enthusiasm translated onscreen.
*facepalm* Sorry, but this is the stupidest challenge ever. Film quality and army strengths have no relation to each other whatsoever. That'd be like arguing Man of Steel is a better film than Captain America: The Winter Soldier because Superman would beat Cap in a fight. Yet we both know TWS is a far better film than MoS is.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Mar 8th, 2017 at 05:37 AM
Which has no bearing on Azog vs Blackhand just as it had no bearing on Lothar vs. Blackhand. In both films the generic orcs were less than the established characters. Lotr didn't really establish many orcs. That's the difference.
Due to the other people joining together and the good guys winning. The orcs took on various factions aligned together so the context matters. The elves and dwarves are formidable indeed. They were going to win. Azog's strategy of two fronts was brilliant but the Eagles and aid showed up at the end. No other faction could take on the rest if the orcs aligned with anyone else. They are the dominant force in the films. Context matters not just the end result. You seem to be like a prebuscent child who can't grasp context and wants to just look at the end result. Context matters. Always.
That isn't a fact it's subjective. This is taste. You're trying to argue your opinion is correct when that will never make it an objective fact no matter how many agree. Quit giving excuses as to justify your opinion. It's just an opinion.
I never said that determines what's better. I said there were certain things better in the hobbit films than Lotr. Bilbo shits all over Frodo. His performance. Do you disagree ?
I also showed you I'm willing to argue the biggest force from the bad guys seen on screen from Saruman would be defeated by Azog's forces from the Hobbit. Azog would prevail over the bred Uruk Hai. Be a man and let's battlezone this. You'll always try to scurry away like Gandalf when Azog comes at him. Whether it's hiding up a tree or glaring s light to just get the hell out of there.
Now I am convinced you only read bits and pieces of my posts and just imagine what you want the rest to say. When I commented on the other Orcs, in terms of applying fighting feats to other characters, I was talking in relation to Aragorn and Thorin. You are just rambling at this point.
And my point goes right over your head. You used Sauron's statement as an argument for why the Orcs are so great. His statement was wrong. That's the point. And the Orcs had a numbers and prep advantage against the other factions, individually. So, of course banding together made sense. And again, none of this is relevant to 1-on-1 versus matches. If you want to go on about this, go make some army thread.
Also, funny how you go on about context when you are famous for picking and choosing when you want to apply it.
You should learn to apply this to yourself, as you constantly act like your opinion is Word of God, even in non-Versus regular film discussions. Fact of the matter is that far more people like the LotR films above the Hobbit films. I said from the get go that you are entitled to your opinion, but you are a minority. It's like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, to get attention.
Neither of those were the best Hobbits from the films, IMO. Also, see above about applying subjective opinion/taste to your own posts.
Why the actual f*** would I BZ a statement I never made, and which has zero bearing on film quality, which is the discussion topic? I never once stated the Helm's Deep army would beat Azog's force, so why should I BZ it? That's just stupid.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
No, your main point from the other thread was that Warcraft orcs were better than Lotr orcs. That's meanginless drivel since we are discussing certain characters so enough with that nonsense. These threads involve highly skilled individuals so quit bringing up the generics. We see Aragorn and Thorin how they fare going up against the elites which make them elite. Blackhand has no impressive showings against elites.
How was it wrong ? Just because everyone else teams up to stop them proves my point. Elves and dwarves can't stand each other but guess what when the real badasses show up they put aside their differences because they know they have to.
The dwarves had the terrain advantage. By means of prep they just showed up to attack but the other forces were already ready for battle so they just turned to face the orcs. It wasn't like they were napping when the orcs showed up in the dead of night, they were already fighting each other. My point is the orcs have always been the de factor badass force the other factions need to align to take on. That's a fact. You can't go around it, Lotr Orc hater.
Azog can stand up to any skilled elf, dwarf, or human character from the Lotr universe in the Lotr universe which shows he's one of the few elite out of this entire realm. Sauron wanted him to lead his armies. Azog was undeniably great. He'd beat any Warcraft Orc in battle.
. What am I ignoring then ?
My opinion isn't a fact it's a subjective opinion. I've never said otherwise. I've never denied that but it's just a more shared opinion. False. You're shitting all over the Hobbit films and I won't allow that. Azog was unmistakably great. The scenes with Sauron were awesome. Smaug was also well done. The fight scenes were just as good as the Lotr massive battles but I enjoyed the battle of the five armies more than Helms Deep or any Return of the King battle. Azog fills the role of the superior trilogy villain. I'm not including Sauron since he was always a background character trying to come back to power and his true form.
What hobbit from the Lotr was better than Bilbo ?
So do you agree with me that Azog would beat the shit out of those Uruk hai bred by Saruman who stormed Helms Deep. Do you agree with me ? Take a position.
You come up with an awful lot of excuses as to avoid a judged debate against me despite your blatant posturing.
Thank you for proving my point. I said general Orcs in Warcraft were shown to be better than general LotR Orcs. This does not contradict any statement I made about Azog. I made that as a comment to say that Aragorn & Thorin beating regular Orcs isn't that impressive, but I never said it's the only measure of their skill. FFS, I even pointed out that both are skilled when I was discussing the match I made between them. Blackhand had implied superiority to most Warcraft Orcs, given the context of his position in the hierarchy.
Fighting together against a numerically superior force is just common sense.
Who said they were napping? Fact is Azog made his plans long before the Dwarves and Elves did. Preparation, planning, and working out long term strategy for battle goes a long way. This is common sense.
When did I say he couldn't fight others in the LotR universe?
And about beating any Warcraft Orc is your opinion. One which several people disagree with, and have presented arguments to back their stance. If you don't agree, that is your opinion too, just as the rest is other people's opinions. None of this shit is real, and characters from different universes will never actually fight onscreen, so all of it is down to interpretation and speculation.
Oooh, "LotR Orc hater". You really need to try harder with your insults.
You often ignore it across multiple threads when it suits you.
And everything you just stated is your opinion. And it is common knowledge that most people prefer the LotR trilogy to the Hobbit films. Even 10 minutes of online research can tell you as much.
I found Merry and Pippin to be the most entertaining out of all the Hobbits in the films. I felt like they worked really well because they had a great dynamic between them. And this is my opinion. Some people didn't like those two. And they are entitled to feel that way.
Well, considering all the Uruk-hai basically had were some ladders and a bomb, whereas Azog's army even had were-worms, the Uruk-hai are at a distinct disadvantage and would likely lose. They also didn't seem to have much of a battle plan other than "get inside Helm's Deep," nor did they appear to have any notable commander on the ground, at the battle. You only need a bit of common sense to realise a better prepped army would do better.
LMAO... It's not excuses. It's just refusing to put up with your nonsense. When people BZ something, it is when the posters took opposing stances to something. I never said shit about Helm's Deep Uruk-hai, so I have nothing to prove. It'd be the same as me challenging you to some nonsense BZ about a claim you never made, and then accusing you of making excuses if you don't agree to it. You should try your baiting tactics with a newer member. I've seen you pull this crap before, and am not falling for it.
Anyway, this has veered so far off topic that it might as well be a different thread altogether. I come to these boards as a minor form of entertainment when I am taking breaks from work and such. You are boring me at this point. I am seriously getting tired of repeating the same things over and over again. You can keep on ranting if you want, but there are other, newer threads to discuss, some even featuring your idol, Azog. But if you really want to keep discussing the armies, just make a new thread for it already.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
The hobbit films were okay. The one thing I like in them that we don't see in the LoTR trilogy is we get to see people like Sauron, Saruman, Galadriel, etc. cut loose. It was cool to, in some way, see why they were so afraid of Sauron coming back. Oh I also like how much of a dick the father of Legolas is.
On the other hand, just the love and care that went into the LoTR trilogy..it just doesn't seem to be there in the Hobbit films. That is how I see it Also IMO it should not have been a trilogy, but just 2 films.
I'm also going to call attention to the elephant in the room: whats with the wizard with the bird shit all over his face? And the rabbit sled or whatever? Yeah, I could of done without those things to be honest.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Mar 8th, 2017 at 05:11 PM
The relative ease in which Thorin and Aragorn defeat the orcs show they stand in comparison. Just as Azog stomps dwarves and even recognized dwarves shows he's in the elite class. Anyone they have shown and built up is better than the rest. This isn't just an Lotr thing either. It's the same in Warcract. Highly skilled humans and orcs slaughter the other generics.
Blackhand was greater than generic orcs just as Durotan, etc. any other portrayed Orc. You're giving him more credit than he deserves especially when gauging his performance against a highly skilled human in Lothar. That's why he falls dramatically off against Azog.
So you admit the orcs were the dominant force due to their numbers. That's what I've been saying, even Gandalf said these orcs were bred for war. They are fighters. Watch the film again since you give them no credit.
And the elves and dwarves were ready for combat. They were aligned in formations ready for combat. They didn't know he was coming despite Gandalf's warnings but all they had to do was turn and face them. This is common sense.
So you agree with my opinion.
My opinion is well supported and makes sense when we factor in the tendencies, feats, and skills of the characters. I am consistent in my standards whereas yours change when it comes to certain Warcraft characters.
Well you don't give them any credit. I ignore nothing.
So you are in agreement both are opinions and neither is a fact. I never disputed the Lotr films are more well liked.
So you enjoyed the comedic aspects but they weren't essential to the story. Bilbo and Frodo were essential to the tasks at hand. Bilbo was the best hobbit hands down IMO.
They had crossbows as well and there were iirc 10,000. So you agree Azog would win. Good. The were-worms weren't used in combat just to dig the tunnels. I wouldn't argue they suddenly join the fray.
I never said you were a coward since you never took that position. But let's talk about a stance you have made. Warcraft orcs vs Lotr orcs.
I'll take Azog and Bolg's combined forces against Gul'dan's forces in the final battle. Would you accept this challenge since you've already made your stance clear on Warcraft orcs being superior. Let's do it.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
That is a good idea, I will sit back and watch your arguments get repeatedly destroyed. Carry on.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
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