Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
No, it's how it worked for everyone who used that draining technique. Traya and the Council both claimed as much. The only difference is Traya resisted the hunger, Nihilus did not, and the Exile was unaware of what she was doing.
That's a fallacious argument and you know it. Firstly, it refers to "command of the Force", even if you believe that means power, the wording is still intentional. The Exile and other characters remarked several times that Nihilus was subservient to his hunger, Traya held the opinion that he was nothing without it. Evidently he would not fall under the category of "command of the force". There's no reason to suggest a Traya who had increased her own power via similar methods would be either. It likely, again, refers to his natural affinity for the force, which is evidently greater than that of Nihilus, Sion, and the Exile.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
I was given the impression that it worked in that manner only in tandem with being a wound in the Force.
Bullshit lol. Traya is never described, depicted or regarded in remotely the same vein as Nihilus by Meetra or anyone else. (And frankly, barely knew anything about her.) Or did Meetra not see herself has having a command of the Force either?
And command over the Force certainly does not refer to natural affinity, but command of the Force, that couldn't be anymore clear.
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
Whatever "impressive" you were given is wrong, lmao. Every Sith touched by Malachor has the exact same ability, Nihilus is simply the highest level. Traya remarks that others will reach that level, in time.
Because Traya is never described, depicted or regarded after she had drained three (four, really) of the strongest Jedi masters in the galaxy. One must extrapolate Traya's quotes regarding the Drain technique to herself, once she uses it.
Edit:
Obviously, but someone who becomes subservient to the Force in the pursuit of power is evidently not in "command" of the force, are they? Revan and Nihilus could be equal, but Revan would still have a far greater "command" of the force.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
Ability yes, that doesn't mean it affected the same outcome. Being a wound in the Force meant Meetra was able to drain effortlessly and instinctively, Traya on the other hand, would presumably have had to expend a considerable amount of power just to drain the Masters in the first place.
Yeah because 1. Meetra knows very little about her 2. Traya is not like Nihilus at all. Post draining the Masters neither of those factors changed, some I'm going to need more substantial proof that Meetra didn't see Traya has having a command over the Force. Which honestly, is a ludicrous claim.
Nihilus is not Traya, so again its irrelevant to bring him up. Beyond that? Abstract nonsense I'm afraid, that could be used to describe every Sith ever, or Jedi, depending on your point of view.
On the other hand no, Traya was able to command the Force to do shit, which she accomplished because she was a masterful Force-user, not because she was abomination like Nihilus.
__________________
Last edited by Beniboybling on Mar 19th, 2017 at 04:24 PM
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
Quote? Or is this baseless conjecture? Because the council claim Meetra's wound is the only thing allowing this version of drain to exist, so if it's effortless for her it's effortless for them.
More baseless nonsense. Traya is exactly like Nihilus, as soon as she drains the council. The fact she hates drain doesn't make her different, she calls herself an old woman wielding a poison she despises after all.
In a Jedi sense, of course she thinks Traya doesn't have a conventional command of the force. The Jedi council told her she herself had no "command of the force", that her power was not her own, that she was a cipher and nothing more. The light side path has you subjecting to their will and teachings, so of course Meetra would hold that opinion of the Sith, since it's exactly what the Jedi preach? She is not an infallible source, her opinions do matter.
Yes, it's almost as if you need to consider Meetra's "point of view" to understand the quote.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
Last edited by Selenial on Mar 19th, 2017 at 05:11 PM
The game yeah the Jedi Masters state that Meetra naturally siphons off of those around here, and if you kill one of them, she instinctively drains them, becoming more powerful.
When did I say anything about hating drain? She's not like Nihilus because she's not a abomination, which should be rather self-evident.
And she took that all to heart did she? I seem to remember several dialogue options in which you could tell them to f*ck off. Nonetheless I don't remember the Jedi Masters saying she didn't have a command of the Force, that seems awfully convenient so I'd appreciate the full passage.
And I'm sure I'll find it in one of your fanfics.
__________________
Last edited by Beniboybling on Mar 19th, 2017 at 05:15 PM
Question, was Kreia a part of the Jedi order during this time? IIRC she left (some sources say was exiled) and if that happens before the Revan "champion of the Jedi" quote is stated, then Kreia would be excluded naturally.
Though I do remember Traya/Kreia has the nifty descriptor "vast telekinetic power" that I don't think I've seen elsewhere:
But really, all this argument about the command of the Force quote. Its really silly because its based around Drew wanking the protag of his work, the original character the games were based off of. Which I can understand, but really its silly.
Nihilus has FAR, FAR greater accolades and feats than Revan. Even Chris who fell in line and unofficially wanked Revan above his own characters (for KOTOR 3 promotion purposes) set up the official accolades and feats for Nihilus to make him the greatest force in the galaxy.
We all know his accolades, and Chris wrote him in game to be even greater than those accolades which the player is given by in game characters:
So what was the player led to believe up to that point?
I seriously doubt Revan has that kind of power. So when it comes to control/power, it obviously isn't in reference to amount of *power*, but *control* over that power. As Selenial effectively argues, Nihilus was not truly in control of any part of his power, it had the power over him.
Well what we *can* factually state, is that Traya is greater than Meetra at the time of their duel.
What can be argued is...
1.) Revan was Kreia's disciple.
2.) Revan returned after his return to the light.
3.) Kreia saw his progression up to when he left for the Unknown Regions.
4.) At the end of the game, Kreia states Meetra is her greatest disciple (as echoed by a third party source).
5.) Meetra was not her greatest disciple because she followed Kreia's advice and specialized teaching, so it had to be something else.
From what I saw in KOTOR 2, Meetra is greater than Revan up until he leaves known space. I can understand Drew wanting to keep Revan on top, and Chris wanting to hype Revan up fro KOTOR 3, but what's there is there in my opinion.
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
Wait, so before I reply to the rest... You think the quote somehow doesn't apply to Nihilus but at the same time applies to Traya, right? You don't think it applies to both?
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
Revan's standing not just comprises that accolade but also Meetra Surik's assessment that his command of the Force was superior to that of any individual whom she met (throughout her life). So when pieced together, Revan is firmly established as the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy and perhaps beyond that. Their is no way to circumvent this holistic assessment.
So? Revan is relatively more powerful and capable Force-user.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Mar 20th, 2017 at 06:06 AM
Darth Nihilus was unstable and would have self-destruct. That is lack of strength on his part. His showings, while grand, are based on borrowed powers. He embodied Nihilism.
Revan, on the other hand, embodied strength and power in true sense of the word. His understanding of the Force is vast and his ability to wield it and raw power, second to none. However, Revan embraced the path of Light.
My stance has nothing to do with the quote from the novel, because as you know, I find it hard to take anything Drew writers about KotOR II seriously.
However, KotOR II itself establishes Revan as having not only having more raw power than anyone else, but also learning everything the Jedi had to offer by the start of the Mandalorian Wars. That puts him above Arren Kae by that time already.
After that, Revan gains enormous dark side powers, and he still hasn't become Darth Revan yet. So that establishes a huge disparity between him and Kreia; even if we take her word that she grew as Darth Traya and interpret that after returning from exile she became even more powerful, it's entirely questionable as to whether she's even rivaled Revan at the end of the Mandalorian Wars. Given that Revan improved yet again upon becoming a Sith Lord, I'm not seeing much of a chance for Traya to match him.