Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
I need direct statements. Jinn or Fisto are never stated to be masters of lightsaber combat. They are stated to be some of the best swordsmen of the order though.
Is Dooku directly stated to be a master of lightsaber combat?
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Yoda, Sidious and Mace are referred to directly as 'masters' of lightsaber combat because they were masters of all seven forms.
I have never seen Dooku, Jinn, Fisto or any others you mentioned as being stated as 'masters of lightsaber combat'.
Lightsaber combat is all seven forms. Jinn was a master of Form IV, Dooku was a master of Form II, Fisto was a master of Form I. This does not make them masters of lightsaber combat. Lightsaber combat encompasses every form.
Dooku is an anomaly. He could have been master of all seven forms. He had enough knowledge in every form to be an instructor, but he did not completely master them, nor did he ever stray from using pure Form II. Therefore he was not a master of lightsaber combat.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Just because you aren't a master of lightsaber combat and therefore not a master of all seven forms does not make you a bad swordsman.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
It has been used for Sidious as well I'm quite sure.
And let me rephrase; I assume that Tenebrous is a master of lightsaber combat. Based on my thread on Plagueis being a master of all seven forms, since Tenebrous loved lightsaber combat and Plagueis didn't, it's safe to infer that Tenebrous was also a master, assuming my theory on Plagueis is correct.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
I will concede on that point. However, I think it should be noted that this quote:
Establishes him as a master of lightsaber combat. Although it is not directly stated, I think if you had asked Gillard directly, he would have confirmed it. He just never said it like that. If Yoda is considered to be a master of lightsaber combat, and Sidious is canonically capable of besting the greatest Jedi warrior in lightsaber combat (Yoda) then it can be properly inferred. It just isn't directly stated.
And yes, it is no small feat. But as you said, it doesn't mean everything. Skywalker was a Form V specialist and he is a 9 alongside Sidious and Yoda.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
That the term "master of lightsaber combatant" should be considered "a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat" and not just "a master swordsmith?"
If so, then I don't think anyone really cares one way or another, just that the term has always been used here to refer to the latter rather than the former.
If your trying to defend your case that Tenebrous is a master of all seven forms, I'd recommend shifting the focus of the discussion to that.
I don't think many would object to Tenebrous being a master of all seven, though. It seems logical, but as I noted, not that impressive to me either.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
I'm trying to say that you cannot be a master of lightsaber combat by specialising in certain forms only. The only directly stated master of lightsaber combat, Yoda, is a master of every form. Sidious can be inferred to be a master of lightsaber combat, due to statements made by Gillard. He was a master of every form.
Other than these two, no one else was. Cin Drallig mastered every form, but this is just one of the criteria that would make you a 'master of lightsaber combat.' The only two 9's (disregard Anakin for a second) are both masters of all seven forms plus extremely powerful/trained in the force. I would say those two are the primary criteria.
Anakin is an anomaly because as a Skywalker and having double (or more) of Sidious' force potential, he's that naturally powerful he can be a 9 while only being a Djem So specialist. Just like Luke contending with Vader on Bespin and outdueling Vader on the Death Star. His force potential was that great that he could not only mirror and copy his opponent's form but also have such strength in the force that he could contend with Vader who had so much more experience than himself.
As for Tenebrous, I don't feel like I need to defend my position that he's a master of all seven forms unless someone wants to challenge me on it.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
?
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Debate me seriously then. I want to be proven wrong.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
In what regard, exactly? Tenebrous is a master of all 7 forms to a high degree? If that's the case, then I agree I'm not sure if I'm even disagreeing with your main point here.
We just have a differing opinion on what the word "master of lightsaber combat" entails. Dunno how that warrants a full page worth of discussion.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were Nova's alt.
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
What's your differing opinion?
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Here and CV, in particular we use "lightsaber master" and "swordsmaster" interchangeably. You're literally the first person I've seen differentiate between the two - thus - the initial confusion.
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
I feel like the phrase 'master of lightsaber combat' should encompass all lightsaber techniques. If one were to take Qui-Gon Jinn for example, he could be considered a master of Form IV and one of the order's best swordsman, but in my eyes he isn't a master of lightsaber combat, since he chooses to apply himself to one of many disciplines that make up lightsaber combat.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
EvanNova from Youtube? Hardly.
He thinks Plagueis was a Niman specialist, I think Plagueis was a master of all 7 lightsaber forms. He also thinks Kenobi > Plagueis, when we all know Plagueis simply ragdolls Kenobi.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Mar 30th, 2017 01:30 AM
