Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Written without Kirby input when Kirby was alive, costume and power changes, and all of it never seen before or since.
You didn't see restored Orion wearing that stupid outfit and flying around without the harness in The Great Darkness Saga.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
So, he may or may not be using a trick that may or may not work on Orion, in the first scan. Regardless, the team isn't facing normal people.
Not impressed, for what you're using it for. He doesn't even say anything about having a supernatural talent for combat like Orion's at least implied. All I'm seeing is he's very old, and has been beaten before. What feats does he have other than fighting Wolverine? He doesn't seem like anything beyond low level superhuman in stats in the scans you're showing. Also, why is he making a huge deal over Wolverine's soul?
So, is there anything about their training that increases their TIME PERCEPTION? Otherwise, you bringing this up to say it "doesn't blow me away" is a circular argument. Unless you can prove their time perception was increased, there's not really a difference since they're still normal humans.
So, skill from a lot of experience?
The timeline looks correct from what I recall of the timeline in NEW GODS SECRET FILES(or maybe it was JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD for SECRET FILES, either way, I think published in 1997), but going by the named comics it seems that page was made/last updated around the time of the ORION series. Morrison very well may have changed the timeline, I haven't read SEVEN SOLDIERS yet.
Wait, you brought this up.
So far, I've only seen that Azrael is superficially similar to Orion in that regard. I'm not seeing anything other than his skill is from being around a really long time. And he doesn't seem to be more than comparable to Wolverine in stats. I'm only going on what you've shown. If he is only comparable to Wolverine in stats, do you think he'd do as well if Azrael had near Superman level stats?
Not familiar with all of them, but what I am, not really impressed. And wasn't Death Wolverine amped by tech?
Like I said earlier, not seeing anything other than superficial similarities to what I showed(so reaching to say "equal in specific aspects"), and his stats are much closer to Street than Superman.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
Yeah, several times Scott had examples that seemed superhuman in speed. Only reason to question was the whole "escape artist master" thing. But he clearly had at least some degree of super speed in the ORION example posted earlier. Orion also had examples that seemed at least somewhat superhuman in speed(agility as well) during Kirby.
Kirby not having input doesn't actually mean anything, unless he owned them when he was alive. The costume changes actually first appeared in 1ST ISSUE SPECIAL #13. Orion's costume change also appears in ADVENTURE COMICS #459-#460, which as far as I can tell, was meant to finish the sotryline in RETURN OF THE NEW GODS(it certainly came after). The costume change was also in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #183-#184, which was published after the ADVENTURE COMICS storyline and directly references it. And the JLofA issues were referenced Post-CRISIS in I think JUSTICE LEAGUE EUROPE.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
He made a pretty cool card in Marvel Puzzle Quest?
If you could ever upgrade him, like all three+ cards.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Okay, grouping these quotes together so I can answer them all at once. First of all, no he does not have any feats, and while he is at least Wolverine's equal physically, judging by Dr. Strange's testimony (and you have to admit, he's a hell of an expert witness) nothing suggests he is anywhere near Orion's stats, nor did I ever claim he was.
He doesn't say anything about having a supernatural talent, but since he was created by God to be the Angel of Death, and has had millenia of killing superhumans who would cheat death, I'd say that qualifies. And again, he's not just skilled, according to Dr. Strange, he is the most skilled opponent Wolverine has ever faced. No small praise.
You're misconstruing my point there. The Valkyra fight was being used to demonstrate Orion's skill, so her physical ability in comparison to him is relevant. Azrael only needs to match or exceed Wolverine in physical ability in order for their match to be a relevant example of Wolverine's skill, and according to Dr. Strange, he does. If I thought or claimed Azrael was a match for Orion, it would have been my first post in this thread.
Lol, so mafia gunmen looking directly at a target they're surrounding, and soldiers that are assaulted directly by their opponent, being unable to see him move, are just as impressive as a little girl being unable to quite see what happened across the room? And of course they've increased their time perception, compared to a little girl with zero combat experience.
"The second finding is that slow-time perception and action can be learned unconsciously, through experience and training... The third finding is that at least to some degree, some trained individuals can actively turn on slow-time perception and processing. This is part of the process of “pumping up” used by skilled athletes preparing for a difficult performance."
Even athletes can train to improve their slow-time perception, let alone trained soldiers/gunmen.
He had tech when he took on the X-Men, but all he used against Hulk was a sword and his claws.
I wasn't referring just to Azrael there. Azrael is at least his equal in experience, and his on-paper equal in skill, Hulk is at least his equal in strength, Sentry is far more than his equal in speed. Yes, Orion's combination of abilities makes him incredibly formidable, and more than a match for Wolverine alone, but he isn't alone, and this team has what it takes to bring him down.
So he superficially matches Orion in the "supernatural talent" and is at best on par with Wolverine in stats.
That's pretty much all Valkyra has. She only has few other appearances that I can tell, and does basically nothing in them. The fight is at least a showing for her durability. Much of her skill is lip service(though the description of the fight and what Vykin's statements together are a bit more than just that). I do use this, but I'm more going on other stuff Orion's shown in addition to this than Zack seems to be. Like the fight with Darkseid, considering Darkseid's physically superior to Orion, and seems to be pretty skilled himself.
Let's assume all examples are speed(instead of Wolverine using a "ninja trick"). If all people have normal time perceptions, and require roughly the same amount of speed for someone to move faster than they can see, then yeah, it's not nearly as impressive as you're trying to argue, when we're talking about moving too fast for a normal human to see.
Actually, I'm already familiar with this, and have read on the subject before. You seem to be misinterpreting your source, or didn't read all of it. I suggest you reread it. Especially the last paragraph, where it states, "This evidence supports the suggestion by Arstila that humans possess a specialized hormonal or neurophysiological mechanism for high-speed cognition; and that this is activated inadvertently by real fear of imminent violent death in accidents, emergencies, and certain extreme sports; and may on some occasions be activated intentionally by individuals who have trained themselves to do so."
Basically, scientists are trying to figure out why it does this. In fact, that part of the article also states, "This raises three questions. Firstly, why is this mechanism only turned on occasionally? Presumably, it has high metabolic costs or side effects which reduce biological fitness if it is activated continually. Secondly, if some individuals have learned to activate slow-time perception, processing and action, what is the mechanism?"
It asks why it doesn't happen every time, and IF(my emphasis) some have learned to do it, how do they do it. Like I said before, scientists are still trying to figure out what actually is happening and how it works. If it works the way you think it does, nearly if not everybody in law enforcement and the military who has been in a shoot out will have experienced this most if not every time. But, that's not the case. Not at all. It's happened to people untrained in accidents.
Now, do the comics you're using actually say they've been trained to increase their time perceptions, or are you going on an article about training MIGHT give the ability?
So he wasn't amped(whether genetic manipulation or cyborg stuff) like Apocalypse has done before with other Horsemen?
No they don't.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."