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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Anakin Skywalker vs Darth Nox


Anakin Skywalker vs Darth Nox
Started by: nfactor1995

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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

I never claimed he couldn't react. Simply that he'd be blitzed.

-> Bases argument on a blatantly wrong interpretation of a quote
-> Discredits a plethora of quotes on the basis of some being contradictory

Old Post May 7th, 2017 06:05 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
The "before he realized what was happening" quotes are obvious hyperbole, lol. We see Mace fighting Sidious alongside Kit for a moment before Kit dies; unless you think that Mace didn't even realize he was fighting Sidious, then the quote's just hyperbolically saying that Mace was astonished by how quickly Sidious was attacking.

I mean, it literally says that Palpatine struck down Kolar, Tiin and Fisto before Mace knew what was happening, yet in both the film and novel (and the comic, IIRC), we have Mace fighting Sidious before Kit dies. So unless Mace didn't even know that he was fighting Sidious, then yeah, the quote is clearly hyperbole.


A character can react to another character and still be blitzed.

I'm not referring to that quote though in the novel Tiin's killed before any of the other B team can react showing Sidious possesses the level of speed to be able to kill before any of them know what's happening.


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Old Post May 7th, 2017 06:06 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Neither you or Nova seem to understand that a character may be able to react to another character but still be blitzed.


Sure, except there is literally nothing that implies sids can blitz mace

Old Post May 7th, 2017 06:07 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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Registered: Aug 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
-> Bases argument on a blatantly wrong interpretation of a quote
-> Discredits a plethora of quotes on the basis of some being contradictory


The quote I'm referencing is backed up by the novel and movie.

Contradicted quotes will be discarded by me, yes.


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Old Post May 7th, 2017 06:07 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Sure, except there is literally nothing that implies sids can blitz mace


Accept the fact that he didn't react when Tiin was cut down right in front of him in the novel and he was helpless to intervene while Tiin and Kolar were cut down in the movie.


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Old Post May 7th, 2017 06:08 AM
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Rockydonovang
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Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Accept the fact that he didn't react when Tiin was cut down right in front of him in the novel and he was helpless to intervene while Tiin and Kolar were cut down in the movie.

sad
Mace had stepped back(aka reacting). Mace wasn't in a position to intervene. More importantly, tiin or Kolar getting blitzed doesn't prove mace would get blitzed.

Mace doesn't have to defend other duelists to be able to contend with palps himself.

If Mace could actually successfully defend himself +his allies from sids, that would actually indicate clear superiority.

Old Post May 7th, 2017 06:21 AM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Personally I don't feel Yoda was at his peak until RotS given his struggle with lifting mildly heavy objects and his inability to lift all of the Muntuur stones. Whether it was the war or something else that revitalized his abilities in this regard I cannot say but that's my stance on the matter.


Well, since Anakin isn't actually better than Yoda in RotS then Yoda's improvement is just enough to justify why Anakin performed better against Dooku. That's it.

His inability to lift the Muntuur Stones was nearly a hundred years before the Clone Wars, btw.

quote:
I didn't say he blitzed him. I said he's capable of blitzing him. Mace moved back and lifted his blade into a defensive position while Sidious cut down Tiin and Kolar. While Mace might be able to react to him he would definitely have been overwhelmed nearly immediately had Sidious not needed to keep him alive to turn Anakin.


Yeah, I know what you said. I was responding to that. Nothing suggests that he would've been overwhelmed nearly immediately.

quote:
When there's nothing to suggest that Anakin's exception, yes.


Other than factual quotes which take precedence over any feats or anything of the sort, you mean.

Here's the thing: facts beat feats. So you can't use any feat or feat-absence argument to try to debunk something established by fact. If an abundance of quotes suggest something, then there's just no getting past that. You'll have to find something else other than "he hasn't shown energy projection on that level" because it's an invalid argument.

What exactly makes it fine to exempt Kas'im and Obi-Wan but not Anakin? Especially when Anakin is largely comparable to Obi-Wan in skillset.

quote:
I disagree. Which is why I combat his wank more strongly then others.


It's not hard for you to say "I just don't like Anakin", you know. smile

Truth be told, I used to hate him as well. Only a select few portrayals of Anakin have redeemed him in my eyes.

quote:
Maybe, but then I probably wouldn't wank an already overwanked character. smile


He was underwanked then, you bozo.

Old Post May 7th, 2017 07:05 AM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, since Anakin isn't actually better than Yoda in RotS then Yoda's improvement is just enough to justify why Anakin performed better against Dooku. That's it.

His inability to lift the Muntuur Stones was nearly a hundred years before the Clone Wars, btw.



Yeah, I know what you said. I was responding to that. Nothing suggests that he would've been overwhelmed nearly immediately.



Other than factual quotes which take precedence over any feats or anything of the sort, you mean.

Here's the thing: facts beat feats. So you can't use any feat or feat-absence argument to try to debunk something established by fact. If an abundance of quotes suggest something, then there's just no getting past that. You'll have to find something else other than "he hasn't shown energy projection on that level" because it's an invalid argument.

What exactly makes it fine to exempt Kas'im and Obi-Wan but not Anakin? Especially when Anakin is largely comparable to Obi-Wan in skillset.



It's not hard for you to say "I just don't like Anakin", you know. smile

Truth be told, I used to hate him as well. Only a select few portrayals of Anakin have redeemed him in my eyes.



He was underwanked then, you bozo.


I'm copy and pasting this btw

Old Post May 7th, 2017 10:36 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
sad
Mace had stepped back(aka reacting).


Yes.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Mace wasn't in a position to intervene. More importantly, tiin or Kolar getting blitzed doesn't prove mace would get blitzed.


Sidious had turned his back to Mace in order to kill Tiin and Mace was in the same position he'd assumed before Sidious had killed Tiin and Kolar in the movie. In the novel he didn't even know Tiin was dead until he fell to the floor. THAT is why I think he'd get blitzed.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Mace doesn't have to defend other duelists to be able to contend with palps himself.


He needs to at least move into a position where he can better defend his allies when Sidious turns his back towards him.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
If Mace could actually successfully defend himself +his allies from sids, that would actually indicate clear superiority.


No it wouldn't. It would indicate that he could contend.


__________________
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Old Post May 7th, 2017 03:07 PM
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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, since Anakin isn't actually better than Yoda in RotS then Yoda's improvement is just enough to justify why Anakin performed better against Dooku. That's it.

His inability to lift the Muntuur Stones was nearly a hundred years before the Clone Wars, btw.



Yeah, I know what you said. I was responding to that. Nothing suggests that he would've been overwhelmed nearly immediately.



Other than factual quotes which take precedence over any feats or anything of the sort, you mean.

Here's the thing: facts beat feats. So you can't use any feat or feat-absence argument to try to debunk something established by fact. If an abundance of quotes suggest something, then there's just no getting past that. You'll have to find something else other than "he hasn't shown energy projection on that level" because it's an invalid argument.

What exactly makes it fine to exempt Kas'im and Obi-Wan but not Anakin? Especially when Anakin is largely comparable to Obi-Wan in skillset.



It's not hard for you to say "I just don't like Anakin", you know. smile

Truth be told, I used to hate him as well. Only a select few portrayals of Anakin have redeemed him in my eyes.



He was underwanked then, you bozo.


Yes.

The fact that he didn't even realize Tiin had been cut down in the novel and that he didn't move from his position despite having had the space to either flank Sidious before he cut down Kolar or attack Sidious from behind when Sidious presented his back towards him and cut down Tiin.

What quote suggests his augmentation is better then his energy manipulation? You mean "T9's being the same but for environmental/stylistic advantages? Something that is thoroughly contradicted by Mace being a borderline "T9" and Anakin's performance against Dooku in comparisson to what Sidious is capable of against Mace. Yeah, sorry, that's doesn't fly with me.

Contradicted statements don't beat feats in my mind, sorry.

The fact that they've actively demonstrated to have that disparity and that Anakin's augmentation has not shown itself to be on the level of Sidious or Yoda.

I actually quite like Anakin. He's one of my favorite SW characters.

Not here and Ant was already doing enough on the Vine.


__________________
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"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

Old Post May 7th, 2017 03:15 PM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes.

The fact that he didn't even realize Tiin had been cut down in the novel and that he didn't move from his position despite having had the space to either flank Sidious before he cut down Kolar or attack Sidious from behind when Sidious presented his back towards him and cut down Tiin.

What quote suggests his augmentation is better then his energy manipulation? You mean "T9's being the same but for environmental/stylistic advantages? Something that is thoroughly contradicted by Mace being a borderline "T9" and Anakin's performance against Dooku in comparisson to what Sidious is capable of against Mace. Yeah, sorry, that's doesn't fly with me.

Contradicted statements don't beat feats in my mind, sorry.

The fact that they've actively demonstrated to have that disparity and that Anakin's augmentation has not shown itself to be on the level of Sidious or Yoda.

I actually quite like Anakin. He's one of my favorite SW characters.

Not here and Ant was already doing enough on the Vine.


1. Quote me the passage in the novel that says that. And in the novel, Saesee and Agen go up in front, so of course they're more vulnerable.

2. What quote? His feats are better with augmentation; in the novel, he's stronger and faster than Yoda even before he turns to the dark side. No idea what you're talking about for the rest of it. Sidious isn't capable of stomping Mace per Lucas.

3. Contradicted because of made-up excuses on your end, maybe. It aligns perfectly with established canon.

4. Other than him pummeling Dooku to a significantly greater degree than Yoda, and the novel directly stating that he's the fastest and strongest? Other than him Fisto'ing Drallig, someone on Fisto's level?

5. Doing enough how? The vast majority at the time were still putting him fairly low. Again, you're full of shit and trying to justify your actions with blatantly false claims.

Old Post May 8th, 2017 07:19 AM
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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:


 

1. Here.

"Tiin frowned and cocked his head. His blade dipped. A smear of red-flashing darkness hurtled from behind the desk.

Saesee Tiin's head bounced when it hit the floor.

Smoke curled from the neck, and from the twin stumps of the horns, severed just below the chin.

Kit Fisto gasped, "Saesee!" The headless corpse, still standing, twisted as its knees buckled, and a thin sigh escaped from its trachea as it folded to the floor.

"It doesn't . . ." Agen Kolar swayed.

His emerald blade shrank away, and the handgrip tumbled from his opening fingers. A small, neat hole in the middle of his forehead leaked smoke, showing light from the back of his head.

". . . hurt . . ."

He pitched forward onto his face, and lay still.

Palpatine stood at the doorway, but the door stayed shut. From his right hand extended a blade the color of fire.

The door locked itself at his back.

"Help! Help!" Palpatine cried like a man in desperate fear for his life. "Security-someone! Help me! Murder! Treason!"

Then he smiled.

He held one finger to his lips, and, astonishingly, he winked.

In the blank second that followed, while Mace Windu and Kit Fisto could do no more than angle their lightsabers to guard, Palpatine swiftly stepped over the bodies back toward his desk, reversed his blade, and drove it in a swift, surgically precise stab down through his desktop." - Revenge of the Sith.

Neither Mace, Kolar or Fisto were able to react as Tiin and Kolar were cut down. They were only able to angle their blades in a defensive position AFTER Sidious had blitzed their fellow Jedi. This lines up with the statement of Mace not being able to react as his fellow Jedi were cut down around him. The movie is a different affair of course.

Note: Also, my reference to Mace neglecting to move in defenses of Tiin or Kolar occurs in the movies. Should have clarified.

2. I asked you that... What are you trying to ask from me?

His feats aren't better, Yoda's carried a multiple ton cannon on his back prior to his peak. The quote you're referencing is contradicted ( at least in regards to speed ) as I've already covered.

Where does Lucas say he isn't capable of stomping a baseline Mace? Because that notion is contradicted in both the movie and novel.

3. How is pointing out that baseline Mace's inability to keep up with Sidious is contradictory to the quote that seemingly places T9's on the same level in regards to augmentation?

4. Already addressed your Yoda argument and the contradicting quotes. Considering there's nothing to suggest Drallig is Fisto level, no.

5. Lol. "Fairly low." You've proved me point if you think where you're placing hims is "fairly low." You can tell yourself whatever you like Nova. It doesn't change facts.


__________________
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"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

Last edited by UCanShootMyNova on May 8th, 2017 at 04:57 PM

Old Post May 8th, 2017 04:52 PM
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NTJack0
Ranger

Registered: Jul 2011
Location: Prancing Pony


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Anakin. He's already tango'd with a much stronger Sith several times by S4.

Old Post May 8th, 2017 08:08 PM
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