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Originally posted by Unbowed
Good thread. Dooku is more or less equal to TCW Maul and solid tier below Sidious and Yoda in both dueling and Force power.

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Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
He's still top 15 msterial

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Originally posted by Lord Stark
No. Dooku still rapes Maul. But yeah Yoda is Dooku's superior. Good thread.

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Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Its too bad literally no has argued yoda isn't>dooku.

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Originally posted by Lord Stark
Really? The word no has argued that Yoda isn't> Dooku. Tell me more.

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Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The word yes makes better arguments tbh

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Originally posted by Lord Stark
True, but the word no ends arguments.

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Originally posted by Deronn_solo
As a duelist, or overall?

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Originally posted by Azronger
The first quote suggests no such thing. It merely says Yoda needed to resort to his weapon when fighting Dooku. This does not imply Yoda fought Dooku with the Force. Force sense is a thing, you know?

As for the thirs source, only the part about Yoda attempting to defeat Dooku with TK can be dismissed. A single false statement does not render the whole quote inaccurate.



There's nothing ambiguous about it. It praises Yoda's immense skill and power with the Force, and then states that despite this, he needed to resort to his lightsaber to best Dooku.

And your interpretation makes no sense. Firstly, you are relying on an argument from ignorance to debunk the quote, which doesn't work. Yoda - or any other Force user - doesn't have to unleash an attack to test their opponent's strength. Force sense exists, and has been used many times in the mythos.

Also, you inadvertently conceded Yoda is not powerful enough to ragdoll Dooku, by admitting that he'd have to fend him off unarmed, and that a lightsaber-wielding Dooku is a "substantial threat of death." If Yoda faces an armed Force user unarmed, he does this. If he was powerful enough to dominate Dooku, he would have done so. The quote agrees with me on this; it's that simple.



No, it cannot be attributed to that, since it is Dooku's lightning in question, and not any random dark side moron's, and it would make no sense for Yoda to have difficulty deflecting such bursts anyway, when his canonical inferiors don't.



The third quote is from Dooku's own POV and thus limited and overruled by the narrator's. The fourth and fifth quote only state the machinery was easy for Yoda to deflect, so no clue why you included those, unless you really thought people wouldn't notice that. And in the fifth quote, the word "easily" is only included in the machine part and omitted in the Lightning one, and instead is replaced with "even", inplying that while his deflection of Dooku's attack was an awe-inspiring display of his power, it was in fact not easy for him.

Only the first and second quotes support the notion of Yoda having an easy time with Dooku. But I'm not familiar with the sources. Are they Canon or Legends? What year were they released in?



No one is disputing the fact that Sidious and Yoda are Dooku's significant superiors, and in their own tier entirely. However, what I (and others) are disputing is that the gap is wide enough for a ragdoll, which, according to the quote, it isn't. I have no doubt in my mind that Sidious would stomp Dooku, since he has Lightning and TP among other things, which even Yoda has had great trouble with. Yoda, however, lacks these advantages, and his only power that can be used in combat is TK, and that is only effective if his target is weak enough to be ragdolled, which Dooku isn't. Thus, Yoda only being able to stalemate Dooku, yet being able to stand up to Darth Sidious, who in turn stomps Dooku, can all be reconciled.



That was obvious from the movie itself. Dooku doesn't land a single blow to Yoda and the latter effortlessly dodges his attempts to do so. No quote was needed to confirm that.



Nothing you've presented here renders the Fact File quote unusable, and it comes later than most sources here anyway (2013, 2014?). Even if Dooku was once presented as fodder to Yoda, the new quote represents an updated view of him, where he is indeed at least somewhat comparable.

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Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Ehh. I have him at top fifteen overall. But He's interchangeable with a lot dark lords tbh

Although tbh i don't quite have a solid top ten list to even say that

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Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Are you referring to the first quote or the third quote here?

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If you want to go that avenue, Yoda failing to defeat Dooku with Force lightning is irrelevant since the Force lightning was Dooku's power, not Yoda's.

Thus, Yoda never used his own power in an attack against Dooku, so them being evenly matched is irrelevant.

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Given Dooku was completely unaware of Yoda's power despite Force sense, this argument would need support to hold any weight.

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The idea that Yoda can effortlessly disarm Dooku with the Force in the same way he could against Asajj Ventress is obviously ridiclous.

Recognize that this doesn't mean Yoda isn't substantially more powerful than Dooku and could overpower him with the Force, since he can.

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It seems you're missing the point.

By default, handling Force lightning is considered to be difficult.

The fact we're discussing Dooku's lightning only adds to the difficulty.

Thus, we can conclude the source is referring to the inherent difficulty in the ability + the additional strength handling it versus Dooku that the feat would demand.

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Nevertheless, Yoda is still stated to have handled it "easily," cementing his status as significantly superior to Dooku in the Force.

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Apparently not. Since Yoda being incapable of ragdolling Dooku doesn't give Dooku any special status or claim to fame. It just means Yoda isn't ridiculously above him in power.

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False. There is no "updated view" considering the Fact Files don't fall under either the Legends or Canon continuity, and that retcon by age doesn't exist as an actual way to overrule continuity. As per Leland Chee, seeing which view is stated the most is a legitimate way to determine, and the majority of sources state Yoda was superior. Further, the Fact Files are inconsistent within themselves. It suggests Yoda and Dooku are rough equals, but then states that unlike the Yoda vs Dooku fight, Yoda is a rough equal to Palpatine. These differences can be attributed to various different authors writing these works. The source also states that Dooku barely escaped with his life in the confrontation against Yoda, which wouldn't be the case if he was comparable to Yoda, as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally posted by Azronger
No one is disputing the fact that Sidious and Yoda are Dooku's significant superiors, and in their own tier entirely. However, what I (and others) are disputing is that the gap is wide enough for a ragdoll, which, according to the quote, it isn't. I have no doubt in my mind that Sidious would stomp Dooku, since he has Lightning and TP among other things, which even Yoda has had great trouble with. Yoda, however, lacks these advantages, and his only power that can be used in combat is TK, and that is only effective if his target is weak enough to be ragdolled, which Dooku isn't. Thus, Yoda only being able to stalemate Dooku, yet being able to stand up to Darth Sidious, who in turn stomps Dooku, can all be reconciled.

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Overall, while Yoda is unable to instantly disarm Dooku with a lightsaber or the Force, he is the significant-to-vast superior. Attributing any success to Dooku in his fight versus Yoda is ridiclous. Almost anyone high-ranking fighter can replicate what Dooku did considering the ambiguity behind how much power Yoda put behind anything he did, since the Fact Files reveal that Yoda had to fight with newfound strength against Palpatine, thus meaning he didn't fight with all his power against Dooku.