Sure, even though Lobo is no slouch. But I wanted to show that even a healing factor such as Lobo's doesn't make one unbeatable by physical force - case and point the space worm for Sentry.
I agree that being as powerful as Rogue with all those heroes absorbed is quite high [probably his best relative performance]. But at the same time, New 52 Superman [i.e. weaker than Rebirth] has had direct quantification to be more powerful than virtually every other hero on Earth combined [Vandal Savage arc]. That included Hal w/Krona's Gauntlet, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman and many, many more. If it came to it, I'm sure I could show that the heroes Superman was more powerful than >> Marvel's heroes that she was showed absorbing.
Superman's carrying blasting power to one-shot Trans Despero, to one-shot Diana and outperform both John Stewart and Supergirl's output [Final Crisis], to match the omega beams [which have vaporized trans-characters], to match the Astro Force, to make holes in Imperiex Probes etc.
I'm not going to be disingenuous, and we both know Sentry won't win a feat war with Superman. I could match and surpass every one of his. But I think DS was basically just Superman on a good/high day. While Thor wasn't having such a good day - I mean, getting dizzy from FTL? Getting one-shot by a blast [when he has taken much worse]? Eh..
If we're only using the highest feats of King Thor, you won't get anywhere with PRime.
I see, to answer how Superman could beat him. Okay. To be fair, it's hardly unbelievable if Superman did pull off the KO given his history, I just think Sentry with the death seed should be operating on a higher level on average.
Oh well sure, but Superman has better feats than most characters in comics, rankings be damned. Thor gets that same benefit as well to a lesser extent in some areas.
And yeah agreed, the FTL thing seemed funny, but I just attributed it to him getting choked too ala wonderwoman style.
They're powerful showings but KT didn't have a lot of low showings. Especially since the end of his career produced an entirely different animal than his less experienced days in his early career. You have a good point bringing up Mordru, in sheer magic potency I'm sure prime can handle Thor's max, like say in the scan that Cely posted, I imagine it'd be a similar outcome to Desak no selling him. But Thor has proven he can overpower straight up magic immunity like Desak has. Wearing the destroyer no less? He ripped its head off with a hammer toss while overpowering a beam that disintegrated amped Loki, who was easily high herald at the point. And considering it was just a hammer toss, the power he was operating at would be able to hurt pretty badly. He still of course has full access to all his usual exotics by that point as well once he recovered Mjolnir.
KT wasn't by any means a slouch physically either.
Gender: Unspecified Location: In Hell, torturing your soul.
People don't get that Superman Prime tank magical attacks with his Invulnerability contrary to Superman whom doesn't have that luxury as being vulnerable to magic means that he tank magical attacks without being invulnerable to them.
I know that post was made on the 30th May and it's probably past the point but I think its kind of unfair to use that instance to put a mark on Sentry's character. I'm not denying it exists because I have the comic in both physical and digital form.
I mean if we want to get into semantics we could hypothetically say we don't know what happened to the Sentry after the worm incident. The only thing we know for certain after that is that he wasn't in the arc anymore (as shown by the cross mark over his face in the previews of the comics past that). We don't know if he was knocked out, killed, pulled a anterior cruciate ligament, got a broken nose. Perhaps he teleported away as he was knocked down. He just survived a direct Mjolnir hit on his brain and declared his body is no more than a shell for what he really is. So would we suddenly disregard what he said there and believe that the worm destroyed him. Then if we go along saying that the worm took Sentry and burrowed into the planet with him, okay where does that take us? We don't have an answer still either way. What happened to Sentry then?
Or we could go onto the other end of the spectrum and theorise that the worm of the Harkep had a specific ability to kill creatures/humans who exist without the need for a physical body ala Sentry. But there's no proof of that either.
Then you could see it as in the story and through the comics he appeared in in that time it is clear that he was far beyond anything any of the heroes in that story could pose to him. If Sentry hadn't been taken out then then the heroes would have been stopped and that would be the end of Uncanny Avengers. Sentry likely kills Thor. Possibly nullifies Wasp and then he carries on with the "plan" that he spoke about so frequently.
So you also have the idea he was written out for the sake of the story being able to continue that Remender had written himself into a corner and had to get rid of Sentry somehow. Much like he did with him going off with Exitars corpse and he has never returned.
I don't think much stock can be put in that showing no matter how you see it.
- If we look at it as the worm had the ability to completely nullify any Psionic being then there's your explanation. Makes no impact on Sentry or his power.
- If we leave it at the point of we don't know what happened to him then we don't know and to theorise anything else is pointless because whatever either side of the argument says is not really correct.
- Then if we presume that due to the nature of Sentry's power there was no choice but for him to be "removed" then there we have our answer again. I will admit it has never been specifically clarified what happened to the Sentry in that situation.
But I don't think anyone can take much from that situation either way. To bring up Superman as it is kind of pertinent (in terms of the character).
If we imagine the petrol station debacle and don't think of any huge context around it. We could say either Superman had to be removed otherwise the story couldn't be progressed, the gas station was specifically treated with kryptonite so the explosion was easily capable of ko'ing him. Then if it just randomly happened then would we forget all of Supermans previous history and say he is so weak to be ko'd by the explosion.
Replace Superman in the story arc with Sentry [make-up a context], and we both know he'd be able to replicate the feats.
Prime's immunity to magic is literal, not just high resistance, though. In the same series he no-sold Moldru, he also no-solid Kinetix - who has the magic of her whole Universe inside of her. It literally doesn't affect him.
Then you take him bathing in Anti-Monitor's energies [same energy devouring Universes and scaring Guardians just by touch]. He survived Monarch's Universe destruction point blank [at that point he lost the guardian amp] - it hit him so hard, he got lost in time. He no-sold multiple Guardians blasting him [same Guardians were hurting Anti-Monitor]. While weakened, he took a savage beating from Superman + Supergirl + Wonder Woman + Martian Manhunter + dozens of others and not only he wasn't even KO, but the moment a single ray of light hit him he overpowered them all casually, then went on to beat Sodam Yat + GL Ring + ION. And it goes on, and on, and on. KT is no slouch physically but Prime is... well, absurd. They're not even close.
In anything that gets physical, I'd favor Prime, undoubtedly. I mean, he's ridiculously strong [he re-arranged the whole Universe to shift its center, for crying out loud, that's just looney tunes], ridiculously durable [above], ridiculously fast [Wally admitted he wouldn't be able to catch Prime, he's blitzed three flashes attacking him simultaneously], ridiculous HV [while weakened, went through Superman like butter], then you get into his stupid shit like punching his way out of the phantom zone, immunity to magic, escaping the speed force and such.
KT would win by BFR, maybe sometimes by all-out hammer throw [Prime is ridiculously hard to KO, so he'd need a pretty below average portrayal of him to accomplish that], and estoric shit. But most of the time, it would be a straight-up physical overpowering, and Prime would push his shit in, imo.
Last edited by Philosophía on Jun 1st, 2017 at 10:52 PM
We know that the worm took him out of the fight enough so that Thor/Wasp had a convo and leave. And Scott, no matter how much I like you, we both know the rest of what you typed is fan-fiction. We might as well say the Worm is The One Above All in larva form, if we keep going that way. We go by what was shown - which is DS was taken out of the fight by getting hit really hard by a space worm.
I also agree that it was a plot device to remove Sentry - but then again, it doesn't make it any less valid. It shows that a physical entity [and make no mistake, that's exactly how the warm was described when it caught Wolverine] can beat him. Besides, we don't do 'no limit fallacy' on the forum - and there's plenty of examples showing characters with even greater degree of healing than Sentry being beaten by physical force [I posted one in the thread, I can do many more].
It's okay I wasn't suggesting any of that to be particularly true one way or another. Just the fact that you could go about it in a myriad different ways if you wanted (and if you were as boring as me).
I'm not disagreeing with what you've said regarding this topic. I don't really see anything in your reply that I find myself disagreeing with. I just wonder how much stock do we place in that incident when we come to debating on a forum like KMC.
My point with my reply mainly was that it's like you see what happened and like I say I won't deny what happened because I have the comics personally so I'd be dishonest if I did. I was just chucking up 3 hypothetical scenarios one might use. It still bemuses me even to this day when I read it. Makes me laugh actually. Some shit worm just luckily appears and bang Sentry is gone.
Like we could say then was the worms attack so great it eclipsed the power of Thors lunge from above with Mjolnir. Again I'm not suggesting that as fact but you could go in circles in the end analysing it again and again. So it's like I just think to myself how much stock do we put in it. How relevant is it when we look at a debate on KMC when we put him in a fight against a character. I'm just not 100% certain.
It's useful in the way that it stops us from going 'he's physically unbeatable, period', like I've seen most threads involving him degenerate into. That shouldn't have been a starting position either way [the no-limits fallacy I mentioned earlier], but the fact that we have an actual example is good to stop that sort of discussion. And it helps us move into stuff that he actually did, and judge them by themselves. I agree with you that the worm is unquantifiable, in that we only know it held Wolverine and it's a sturdy creature with impenetrable hide [and, like you said, a plot device] - so that's why I moved towards talking about what he actually did, rather than speculate into what I [or somebody else] would think him capable of doing.
Last edited by Philosophía on Jun 1st, 2017 at 11:51 PM