I already told you, we live in a "cursed" world because of Adam's sin. All sickness and disease are manifestations of death.
It has “nothing” to do with punishment.
The two-year-old in your scenario is "not" being punished.
However, the two-year-old still lives in a death-cursed world because of Adam’s sin.
But like I said before to you, Adam “disobeyed” God, but the Lord Jesus (Who is referred to as the “last Adam”—“obeyed” God. The Lord Jesus did what Adam failed to do. Jesus Christ obeyed God—thus causing “everyone” Who “believes” in Him to be “born again”, and free from the curse of the law.
Again, through faith in the “Word of God”, and the “Name” of Jesus we can overcome “many” right now, and eventually “all” at a later date, of the effects of the curse that Adam let into the world through his sin/disobedience.
I “just” told you.
The “moment” Adam “sinned”, he experienced the wages (or consequence) of his sin, which was death, so Adam was held accountable for his sin.
But that does not negate the fact that by one man sin "entered the world", and “death” by (or through) sin.
You see, Adam subjected himself (and every person that would be born from him down through time) with a sin “nature”. That sin nature caused all of Adam’s descendants to be dead “spiritually”, and susceptible to other “forms” of death, such as sickness and disease.
It is relevant because you said, and I quote,
Do you remember writing that?
You said that you think that it is “deeply unfair” that you inherited Adam’s punishment.
But you are not being "punished" for Adam’s sin. You only “inherited” his sin nature. You still “chose” to commit your “own” sins—even before you even “knew” about Adam.
Isn't that right?
But what you must understand is that even if Adam had not sinned, “you” would “still” be a sinner because of your “own” sins. You see, you are “not” innocent. You are a “sinner”.
So what’s unfair?
Nothing's unfair.
Again, your own “personal” sins are relevant to this discussion because you are just as “guilty” as Adam is.
You are “not” innocent before God if you have sinned even “once”.
And if Adam had never sinned, you would “still” be in the same situation that you are in now. The situation of being a sinner in need of the Savior Jesus Christ.
Wrong. “Everyone” sinned; therefore, “everyone” has sinned.
But “not” for all time.
You see, like I said before, Adam “disobeyed” God (or sinned), but the Lord Jesus (Who is referred to as the “last Adam”—“obeyed” God (or never sinned). The Lord Jesus did what Adam failed to do. Jesus Christ obeyed God—thus causing “everyone” Who “believes” in Him to be “born again”, and free from the curse of the law.
Again, through faith in the “Word of God”, and the “Name” of Jesus we can overcome (“many” right now, and eventually “all” at a later date) the effects of the curse that Adam let into the world through his sin/disobedience.
But they sinned because of the Lightbringer, right?
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
No, that’s “not" the “reason” that you “live” the way you do (or the reason why you “sin”). You “sin” because you “choose” to sin.
You see, you have a “will”, and with your will you can choose “not” to sin, or you can choose “to” sin. Adam’s sin did “not” override “anyone’s” free will (yours included).
It’s kinda like saying that since “alcoholism” runs in your family that you are inevitably “doomed” to become an alcoholic. No, you can “choose” to become an alcoholic, or you can “choose” not to become an alcoholic. The ball is in your court. You are not bound by, nor controlled by your family’s tendencies. Well, similarly, you are “not” bound by, nor controlled by Adam’s sin nature.
So if we can choose whether or not to sin surely you think the concept of original sin to be bullshit?
If you don't think it's bullshit and we're going to be credited with the sins of people from the past, I'm going to take that to the extreme. We aren't just going to credit the sins of others to me, but the good deeds as well. We take the good with the bad you see.
So, I've now come up with the Polio vaccine. That was me bro, my deed. Mine. I own it now. Awesome. Btw, planes and cars and candy canes? Also me bro, you are welcome.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Jul 1st, 2017 at 10:05 PM
You said the reason we have things like murder, etc. is thanks to Lucifer. Why would we not blame Adama's sins on Lucy too?
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
I told you that the devil is the god of this age. What that means is that he has dominion over the corrupt world system, the weather, animals, etc. That’s why there’s so much catastrophe. The only thing that is stopping him from murdering everyone is the “grace” of God, and the prayers, and faith of God’s people (i.e. believers/Christians).
But the devil can only "influence". But he cannot "make" someone do something, unless that person freely gives his/her “will” completely over to the devil, to be used by him (That’s what serial killers do, they always say that a “voice” told them to do such and such).
The devil “deceived” eve (“not” Adam). But Eve “still” freely “chose” to do what the devil “suggested” to her. It is the same way today. The devil and/or his angels (i.e. demons) come along and “tempt” you, me, or someone else to sin (in some way, shape, or form) through the power of “suggestion”.
However, it is “not” a sin to be “tempted”, it is a sin to “yield” or “give in to” the sin. Jesus Himself was “tempted” by the devil. But “each time” the devil tempted Him with sin, the Lord Jesus responded with “Scripture” (the “right” Scripture to help Him to resist that particular sin, whatever it was).
That is what the “believer” should do. Speak the Word of God whenever the devil tempts us to sin. That’s what I do now, and it “works” every time that I hold fast to it, and “do” it with the “will” to obey God.
I have to say you type as if you are a used car salesman who doesn't even believe the spiel he is giving.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Yeah, pretty much this. He/she is telling me that innocents aren't being punished with death and diseases on Adam's behalf even though that's clearly what is happening. If the Abrahamic God was a just and a fair one, Adam and Adam alone would have suffered the consequences, not the entire world for thousands of years afterwards.
__________________ And from the ashes he rose, like a black cloud. The Sin of one became the Sin of many.
Christians don't love god or Jesus; they're just trying to earn their way into a blissful, eternal afterlife called Heaven. Why? Because the basis of Christianity isn't love; it's fear. "Worship the magical man in the clouds, or burn in Hell for eternity."
I guarantee that if god really existed and came to Earth to announce that there is no afterlife, good or bad, whatsoever, but he still wanted people to worship him,then the Bible would be as popular as reruns of the Gong Show.
The funny thing is if God did come down and say that...some of the truly crazy and devoted religious people would just claim it was God trying to test people to get them to do good for no other reason than to do good.
Or they'd blame it on some kind of trick by Satan.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
“No”, I said that Adam introduced "death" (which is a "curse" that has many forms) into the world, and that sickness, disease, brain tumors etc. are a result of this curse. Adam's sin allowed "death" into the world. Death or the “curse” (which has “numerous” forms) includes sickness and disease, but is “not” limited to sickness and disease. But any children who suffer from sickness and/or disease are “not” being punished for Adam’s sin, they are just unfortunate victims of Adam’s sin.
I refuted “your” claim that, a 2-year-old with a brain tumor or as you call a,
“…complete innocent is being punished because some guy thousands of years ago had sinned?”
You "clearly" do "not" understand what I've been trying to communicate to you.
I told you before (and I'm "still" telling you) that, we live in a "cursed" world because of Adam's sin, and that all sickness and disease are “manifestations” of death—“not” punishment.
Many innocent children die, or suffer from sicknesses, diseases, and/or illnesses caused by death (or the curse) that resulted from Adam’s sin. These innocent children did “nothing” to deserve their plight, yet are “victims” of the “act” of “one” man (“Adam”) which occurred thousands of years ago.
Let me give you an analogy to help you to see what I’m talking about.
During World War II, President Harry S. Truman ordered two atomic bombs to be dropped/detonated on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, on August 6, and August 9 1945 respectively.
Approximately 129,000 people died as a result of the "acts" of this "one man".
I quote,
“During the following months, large numbers died from the effect of burns, radiation sickness, and other injuries, compounded by illness and malnutrition.”
The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Japan marks the only time in world history that “nuclear” weapons were “ever” used. But the “fallout” from “radiation exposure” has contributed to increased “cancer” rates in the “survivors” of those two fateful, catastrophic events. “Leukemia” and other “illnesses” affecting “children” have been directly traced to “radiation sickness” from the bombings.
Again, there were many innocent children that died, or suffered injuries and/or illnesses caused by radiation sickness, and scattered debris from nuclear bombs dropped over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. These innocent children did “nothing” to deserve their plight, yet were “victims” of the “acts” of “one man" (this sure sounds “familiar”) which occurred thousands of days ago.
Doesn’t seem fair?
It’s not, but it’s the result of living in a death-cursed world.
But just as you wouldn’t describe the children who suffered radiation exposure from the atomic bombs dropped on them (through no fault of their own)—as being “punished”, neither is the two-year-old with the brain tumor (in your scenario) as a result of a “death-cursed” world—being punished.
I could use a number of catastrophic examples to illustrate the point that just because “innocent” children are victims of heinous crimes (committed by “others” through “no fault” of their own), that does “not” mean that these children are being “punished”.
In fact, nothing could be further from the truth.
But the “good news” is (and like I’ve told you before) that even though Adam “disobeyed” God, the Lord Jesus (Who is referred to as the “last Adam”—“obeyed” God. The Lord Jesus did what Adam failed to do. Jesus Christ obeyed God—thus causing “everyone” Who “believes” in Him to be “born again”, and free from the “curse” of the law.
Again, through faith in the “Word of God”, and the “Name” of Jesus we can overcome “many” (right now, and eventually “all” at a later date), of the effects of the curse that Adam let into the world through his sin/disobedience.
Why are you comparing nuclear bombs to brain tumors? A nuclear bomb getting dropped is a result of choices people make. Nobody chooses to get a brain tumor though.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
You do err, Impediment; not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.
In addition, you do not know how “salvation” works.
You see, the New Testament is "replete" with Scriptural "doctrine" that teaches that we are saved by "grace" through "faith"--"not" of ourselves. It (i.e. our salvation and guaranteed entrance into Heaven through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ) is the “gift” of God.
Hence, we are “not” trying to “earn” anything.
Second, the Bible reveals that “God is Love.”
“Love” is a “Person”.
He's Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Son of the "living" God.
You see,
“Love” (i.e. Jesus Christ) did so “many” things for atheists, agnostics, skeptics, and for the "whole world" (this includes believers, or those who have "received" Him, confessing that He is Lord, or those who are called "Christians")
“Love” left the “glory” and “splendor” of Heaven and was made “flesh” (or Human without ceasing to be God), and dwelt among us.
“Love” lived a “sinless” life, and traveled from city to city teaching and preaching the "good news", and doing "miracles" (which proved He was Who He said that He was) as He compassionately “healed” and “fed” many who were paralyzed, deaf, mute, blind, epileptic, leprous, and hungry, delivered many who were demon-possessed, and raised the dead.
“Love” was beaten mercilessly with a cat o' nine tails until His back and torso lay open like strips of meat from a butcher.
“Love” was mocked with a makeshift robe, bloodied, spit on, punched repeatedly in the face by numerous Roman soldiers while blindfolded, until his visage (i.e. his face or countenance) was completely inhuman looking, and unrecognizable.
“Love” was injured and punctured with a mock crown composed of razor-sharp thorns in His head which caused His face to be completely covered in lukewarm Blood.
After being up all morning with no food, and no strength, “Love” was forced to carry the patibulum (i.e. the crosspiece, which was what prisoners carried which weighed between 70 and 120 pounds).
“Love” stumbled to His knees from the weight of the crosspiece, lack of food, and no sleep or rest.
“Love” was lain on His Blood-soaked, flesh-opened, bone-exposed back as 8 inch nails were hammered into His hands and feet.
“Love” permitted His rugged cross to be “mercilessly” pulled into position (which caused even more pain to “shriek” through His already “badly beaten/weakened” Body from the inertia of stopping suddenly—causing His whole body to jerk with “excruciating” pain.
“Love” allowed Himself to be “crucified” between two thieves at a place called Calvary.
“Love” was forced to tense His aching muscles in order to pull His body up—for just “one” breath—of air each time “Love” needed to breathe.
“Love” hung naked and wounded on a cross for “hours” while those who hated Him scorned, laughed, ridiculed, and mocked Him.
“Love” “died” on the cross that day.
“Love” was “pierced” (i.e. His side was pierced by the spear of a Roman soldier).
“Love” was taken down from the cross and laid in a rich man’s new tomb (i.e. sepulcher) after His “dead” Body was anointed with myrrh and aloes, then wrapped in fine, clean strips of swathing linen cloth.
“Love” rose from the dead the “third” day.
“Love” was seen by His disciples after He rose from the dead after being dead for “three days”, and “three nights”.
“Love” was seen (eventually) by over 500 people at once.
“Love” ascended “bodily” or “physically” back to Heaven, in the presence of His disciples.
“Love” will return soon.
“Love” did (and “went through”) all of this because “good deeds” (or “good works”) do “not” save anyone.
“Love” said,
“Greater love has no man than this, that a Man lay down His life for his friends.” (John 15:13)
So Impediment, your claim that,
“…the basis of Christianity isn't love; it's fear….”
cannot be supported with Scripture.
Here’s a treatise I wrote in 2015 “on this very topic” (about whether or not a person’s “good deeds” [or “good works”] “save” them, granting them entrance into Heaven or not).
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Jul 1st, 2017 05:56 PM
