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When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?
Started by: Greatest I am

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Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I guess you didn't understand the content of yet another post. Sigh.

But don't worry friend, I'm here to help you out. thumb up

My post wasn't oriented to your fairly misdirected moral judgement of religion, but rather to the way you make fun of their core beliefs -even in your very first reply to me in this thread-, while at the same time believing in stupid shit yourself, like ghosts and bigfoot, with admitedly no basis in reality. Lol. Is that clear enough?


Indeed, ghosts being real is indeed silly. I wouldn't whine and throw a b*tch fit if someone pointed this out. It is silly, full stop. Difference is I'm not trying to shove my silly beliefs down the throats of others. So I'm still waiting for the "gotcha" part, where does it come?

Query though, as someone who seems to at least try to give the appearance of intelligence: are all silly things in life equally silly?


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Old Post Jun 13th, 2017 03:02 PM
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Adam Grimes
Devil On Your Shoulder

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Shit, you're really worried about perceived intelligence in a e-forum. Lol

Difference is nobody is trying to shove you anything down your throat here, so that excuse of yours is out. And no, not all things are equally silly, but we are not discussing that buddy.

Unless you want this to derail into 'my beliefs are slightly less retarded cause hurrr dur'? Lol


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Old Post Jun 13th, 2017 03:12 PM
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Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Shit, you're really worried about perceived intelligence in a e-forum. Lol

Difference is nobody is trying to shove you anything down your throat here, so that excuse of yours is out. And no, not all things are equally silly, but we are not discussing that buddy.

Unless you want this to derail into 'my beliefs are slightly less retarded cause hurrr dur'? Lol


Who said people here try to shove it down anyone's throat? We're discussing religion in general: so the "excuse" certainly isn't out, it's quite in.

This is not really about silly beliefs, it's about beliefs that lead to harm. Like I said, I can agree thinking ghosts are real could be seen as silly. On top of that, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny are also silly things. I tend not to care because folk aren't out there twisting those beliefs into things that can potentially do harm.


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Old Post Jun 13th, 2017 03:28 PM
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Patient_Leech
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
You still haven't quite explained how it's hypocritical to say you don't believe physical death is the end, but it's not hypocritical if you don't believe God is real. There is no evidence on Gods existence either way, so that is a problem we run into.


You've used way too many double-negatives, so I'm not even quite sure what you're trying to say, but if I do understand you right: Believing that one's soul rises out of your skull after death with similar capacities that we have in this world requires a similar jump in faith to the existence of God, for which there is also little to no evidence. That's why it's hypocritical for you to be adamant that there is no God, but that our souls carry on after death.

Unless of course some new and fascinating scientific facts come in...



quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
On top of that, you've still left us all in the dark about how believing something without empirical evidence is hypocrisy... A persons lack of scientific evidence for their beliefs is irrelevant to me. It's the harm their beliefs cause.


Even seemingly harmless irrational beliefs (i.e. beliefs that contradict science) like crackers turning into the body of some religious figure can have significant consequences. Surt, you don't like Muslims harming Jews in the name of their religion, do you? Well here you go, Sam Harris lays out a very curious example of established Christianity doing it with some seemingly harmless irrational dogma...

quote:
But for sheer gothic absurdity nothing surpasses the medieval concern over host desecration, the punishment of which preoccupied pious Christians for centuries. The doctrine of transubstantiation was formally established in 1215 at the Fourth Lateran Council (the same one that sanctioned the use of torture by inquisitors and prohibited Jews from owning land or embarking upon civil or military careers), and thereafter became the centerpiece of the Christian (now Catholic) faith. (The relevant passages from The Profession of Faith of the Roman Catholic was cited in chapter 2.) Henceforth, it was an indisputable fact of this world that communion host is actually transformed at the Mass into the living body of Jesus Christ. After this incredible dogma had been established, by mere reiteration, to the satisfaction of everyone, Christians began to worry that these living wafers might be subjected to all manner of mistreatment, and even physical torture, at the hands of heretics and Jews. (One might wonder why eating the body of Jesus would be any less of a torment to him.) Could there be any doubt that the Jews would seek to harm the Son of God again, knowing that his body was now readily accessible in the form of defenseless crackers? Historical accounts suggest that as many as three thousand Jews were murdered in response to a single allegation of this imaginary crime. The crime of host desecration was punished through Europe for centuries.

It is out of this history of theologically mandated persecution that secular anti-Semitism emerged. Even explicitly anti-Christian movements, as in the cases of German Nazism and Russian socialism, managed to inherit and enact the doctrinal intolerance of the church. Astonishingly, ideas as spurious as the blood libel are still very much with us, having found a large cult of believers in the Muslim world (*42).

quote:
*42 footnote:

The Egyptian paper Al Akhbar and the Saudi paper Al Riyadh have both published articles purporting to verify the blood libel. The Syrian defense ministry Mustafa Tlas has written a book, The Matzoh of Zion, charging the Jews with ritual murder. Nazi propaganda on the subject dating from the 1930s, now appears on Islamist websites. See Kertzer, "Modern Use."


~ Sam Harris
The End of Faith (p.99-100)


Your belief that our souls rise out of us after we die would be perfectly good irrational evidence to ban the extremely promising medical treatment of stem cells. And indeed that very reasoning was used to stop it at the federal level.

So what do you say we keep the discourse rational and firmly planted in this world, eh?


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Old Post Jun 13th, 2017 03:50 PM
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Beniboybling
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Location: United Kingdom

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Indeed, ghosts being real is indeed silly. I wouldn't whine and throw a b*tch fit if someone pointed this out. It is silly, full stop. Difference is I'm not trying to shove my silly beliefs down the throats of others. So I'm still waiting for the "gotcha" part, where does it come?

Query though, as someone who seems to at least try to give the appearance of intelligence: are all silly things in life equally silly?
At least Surt admits he's dumb. sad


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Old Post Jun 13th, 2017 03:58 PM
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Adam Grimes
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Who said people here try to shove it down anyone's throat? We're discussing religion in general: so the "excuse" certainly isn't out, it's quite in.

This is not really about silly beliefs, it's about beliefs that lead to harm. Like I said, I can agree thinking ghosts are real could be seen as silly. On top of that, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny are also silly things. I tend not to care because folk aren't out there twisting those beliefs into things that can potentially do harm.
Again, I'm not talking about that. But about you finding their beliefs to be silly, and actively ridiculizing them, not criticizing them.

Why do you do that?


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Old Post Jun 13th, 2017 08:22 PM
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Greatest I am
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
They aren't incompatible if you posit the logical conclusion that if a God created the universe scientific laws and fact are his direct word.

Regards
LSDMB



Yes but only a fool would posit the existence of some supernatural God.

Regards
DL

Old Post Jun 30th, 2017 11:05 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Indeed, ghosts being real is indeed silly. I wouldn't whine and throw a b*tch fit if someone pointed this out. It is silly, full stop. Difference is I'm not trying to shove my silly beliefs down the throats of others. So I'm still waiting for the "gotcha" part, where does it come?

Query though, as someone who seems to at least try to give the appearance of intelligence: are all silly things in life equally silly?

Easy for you to say because you haven't witnessed and/or experienced strange stuff.

There are mysteries of this universe which I don't think science is close to unlock anytime soon.


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Old Post Jul 2nd, 2017 11:51 AM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

Gender: Male
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Yes but only a fool would posit the existence of some supernatural God.

Regards
DL

You mean like almost all of the US's founding fathers, all of the US's presidents, Sir Isaac Newton, Georges Lemaître (the Catholic Priest who first came up with the Big Bang theory), John Locke (the father of liberalism whose political philosophy is the basis for much of the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution), Galileo Galilei, not to mention Ben Shapiro (whose a brilliant debater even if you don't agree with his political stances), etc.

This isn't an argument for the correctness of a belief in God, but it's certainly a misconception that atheism has some kinda monopoly on intelligence, smart people, or even science.


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Old Post Jul 2nd, 2017 03:58 PM
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Beniboybling
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The founders of the United States, the man who discovered gravity, the inventor of the big bang theory, the father of liberalism, one of the greatest astronomers in history and... Ben Shapiro.

laughing sick


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Old Post Jul 2nd, 2017 04:39 PM
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Greatest I am
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Easy for you to say because you haven't witnessed and/or experienced strange stuff.

There are mysteries of this universe which I don't think science is close to unlock anytime soon.


I just put up a new O.P. that has a link you should follow to see just how bright the ancient ones were about God and just stupid we are today in our thinking of Gods.

Just because the majority claim to be religious does not mean that any of the Gods are the way idol worshipers of today claim they are.

The majority of religionists are homophobic and misogynous and religions should be judged by their morality and as you can see, most of the religious are not moral people.

Regards
DL

Old Post Jul 3rd, 2017 11:37 AM
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