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Beerus vs Darkseid
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ares834
Grand Moff

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Technically, the Great Evil Beast is the whole reason for the struggle between Heaven and Hell in the first place. The only way to prevent that is to stop it, which the Spectre could've done assuming he channeled enough of Yahweh's powers.


No. He can straight up stop the armies as well. However, I think it more likely it alludes to him stopping the "black bird" from awakening the GEB in the first place. Spectre notes he could have done this in the first place but couldn't be bothered to do so.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Yahweh also notes he's "infinite and eternal" in the same scan. And how can he be shaped by dreams if he existed before the concepts of dreams? God wasn't created in any sense by his worshippers dreaming him, he merely takes form to grow accustomed to said Dreams. It's the same as Morpheus being seen as a different being to pretty much anyone who encounters him. Or Michael being seen as Kali rather than the Archangel. Otherwise, no God has no actual shape, just aspects through which he acts.


But that's not at all what God is saying. He isn't at all talking about the form he is taking on. He is straight up saying that he did not create himself but was created by other forces. By believing it, we have made a God that has always existed and is "all powerful". It's like in the Sandman comic, the dreams of humans didn't merely switch the roles of cats and humans but rather made it so humans were always the superior species. Of course, this is all reliant on taking Carey's word as gospel, which as I said before, I don't.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Actually, in Grant's works Yahweh is actually still kind of the creator whereas Overvoid is the canvas.


Morrison has claimed that the Primal Monitor is "God" in various interviews before. Of course, I don't agree with him on that as the two are completely different beings.


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2017 03:21 PM
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MythLord
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
No. He can straight up stop the armies as well. However, I think it more likely it alludes to him stopping the "black bird" from awakening the GEB in the first place. Spectre notes he could have done this in the first place but couldn't be bothered to do so.


I don't think stopping a black bird is in any way a great feat of power that should be held alongside Aztar fighting the Anti-Monitor, lol.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
But that's not at all what God is saying. He isn't at all talking about the form he is taking on. He is straight up saying that he did not create himself but was created by other forces. By believing it, we have made a God that has always existed and is "all powerful". It's like in the Sandman comic, the dreams of humans didn't merely switch the roles of cats and humans but rather made it so humans were always the superior species. Of course, this is all reliant on taking Carey's word as gospel, which as I said before, I don't.


Technically, Yahweh says he's shaped by them, not created by them. He is infinite and eternal, his shape is in a sense reliant on the dreams of people but I've already explained why that is.
Point being, the concept of Dream itself is far, far younger than God so it's impossible for God to have been created by it. And in The Tale of a Thousand Cats it's only talking about humanity, which is a microfraction of the Presence's creation.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Morrison has claimed that the Primal Monitor is "God" in various interviews before. Of course, I don't agree with him on that as the two are completely different beings.


Which is awesome, but the Presence has outdone him before anyways and in a sense really does do more of the work as a painter than the Overvoid has.


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2017 07:15 PM
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ares834
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Or, as I said, it could refer to him stopping the armies themselves. It certainly makes no reference to him defeating the GEB.

Once again, no. You are completely ignoring the context. Immediately before, God is talking about how he did not make himself as no one can. I don't care if you think the dreaming is capable of this or not, as the comic itself never states what these "external forces" are. However, the comic is stating that even God has his maker.


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2017 07:42 PM
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MythLord
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Or, as I said, it could refer to him stopping the armies themselves. It certainly makes no reference to him defeating the GEB.


Which still wouldn't stop the actual war, as it's key factor is the struggle between GEB and Yahweh's Divine Hand.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Once again, no. You are completely ignoring the context. Immediately before, God is talking about how he did not make himself as no one can. I don't care if you think the dreaming is capable of this or not, as the comic itself never states what these "external forces" are. However, the comic is stating that even God has his maker.


Nah. Yahweh uses the term Maker in a different context to himself than he does for Lucifer. For Lucifer, he's implying a creator of sorts; for himself it's a shaper and in this case that shaper is the dreams of his worshippers. And that in no way debunks the idea that he's omnipotent.


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2017 08:41 PM
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carver9
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Back on topic. Beerus stomps.


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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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True Darkseid gets stomped by Beerus? How?


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NemeBro
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Because carver hates DC and likes DB.


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2017 09:08 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Which still wouldn't stop the actual war, as it's key factor is the struggle between GEB and Yahweh's Divine Hand.


It would stop the war between "heaven and hell" which is all the text notes. Ultimately, it doesn't state he could defeat the GEB that would be merely an interpretation. And considering the GEB is supposed to be God's equal, a flawed one.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Nah. Yahweh uses the term Maker in a different context to himself than he does for Lucifer. For Lucifer, he's implying a creator of sorts; for himself it's a shaper and in this case that shaper is the dreams of his worshippers. And that in no way debunks the idea that he's omnipotent.


Uh, he is talking about "makers". That's what the conversation is about... How nothing can create itself, not even God. So, even if one were to foolishly dismiss God being created, we do have God claiming a limit to his power thus showing he is not omnipotent.


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2017 10:08 PM
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