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Triggered: Stories to make you mad.
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by socool8520
^ Do you have to be Hispanic to be a member?


I assume so given their name.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 03:33 PM
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Emperordmb
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I mean the existence of the group itself disgusts me tbh. I've never been a fan of racial collectivism. I and other people are disgusted if a white interest group forms in politics, I think we should hold that standard universally because that's what it means to have principles.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 03:37 PM
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socool8520
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^ Me either. It only heightens segregation and isolation. It's okay to fight for hispanic rights as long as you also fight for everyone's rights.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 03:38 PM
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Scribble
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I don't really see an issue with minority groups forming collectives, personally. I think principles can be multi-layered rather than just big blanket catch-all moral systems.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 03:56 PM
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Emperordmb
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What about if a white person has concerns about say... affirmative action or diversity quotas that discriminate against them on the basis of their race? Or problems with Critical race theory (the sociological framework that all white people are racist and that black people can't be racist) being taught in college?

Is the white racial group allowed to form a collective based on these concerns? Or is that considered racist and disgusting?


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:01 PM
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socool8520
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I think when you start doing things like that, it gives off the perception of exclusivity and favoritism. I mean can you imagine the hell that would be raised if there was a caucasian caucus? Instead, why not just assimilate into the already established groups and contribute to diversity? Also, I feel like people will be more likely to hear and support your ideas if you make them part of the group rather than making it a "these people only" type of situation.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:02 PM
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
The Irish thing is important, imo. Because Irish people, even here in the UK, were often referred to as 'White [N-Words]'. That clearly shows that the racist terms created for black people have always been about power, not skin colour. Terms used to allow those in power, who happened to be white, to continue exerting control over those below them.

This whole pitting average black people against average white people is exactly what the powerful want. Keep everyone distracted with identity politics while they keep rolling through life, ****ing everyone over.
thumb up

You're right. But a feasible solution to this problem of racial friction though has to be, for the time-being, within the black-white dichotomy. Black and white people have different social identities and culture, and they need to find ways to celebrate each other instead of fight each other.

Slowly things are getting better, black culture and white culture are very much intermixing and intertwining.

This Trump thing is just a momentary breakdown in all communication, and has emboldened radicalism and nationalism that is bad for racial unity.

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:05 PM
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socool8520
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218


This Trump thing is just a momentary breakdown in all communication, and has emboldened radicalism and nationalism that is bad for racial unity.


While I agree he isn't helping things, this was bubbling over in the Obama days as well.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:06 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
What about if a white person has concerns about say... affirmative action or diversity quotas that discriminate against them on the basis of their race? Or problems with Critical race theory (the sociological framework that all white people are racist and that black people can't be racist) being taught in college?

Is the white racial group allowed to form a collective based on these concerns? Or is that considered racist and disgusting?
It's a very touchy issue, as I'm not a US citizen, I'm hesitant to lay down a full US-specific response as I feel I'd be missing a lot of details. I mostly just mean that minorities in an ethnic-majority country should be able to form groups that look out for each other (or just to form a connection with other, similar people in their area), as a majority should (should) be able to voice their opinions very easily in the mainstream.

I think if a white person wants to make a group like that they should perhaps include minority groups who also support their beliefs, to show that this is not about racial superiority. I'm sure there are minorities who disagree with affirmative action and diversity quotas, and having them on their side would be much more effective than if they just stuck to their own. That's just a basic, preliminary opinion though, not one I am dedicated to.

In any case, it's a lot more complex than just "It's either okay or obscenely racist".


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:09 PM
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
I mostly just mean that minorities in an ethnic-majority country should be able to form groups that look out for each other
The White people of the time forced black people to form groups through their policies on segregation. The reason we still have things like all-black colleges and all-black churches is because of the tradition of "black people by themselves" that was established by white policy.

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:16 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
thumb up

You're right. But a feasible solution to this problem of racial friction though has to be, for the time-being, within the black-white dichotomy. Black and white people have different social identities and culture, and they need to find ways to celebrate each other instead of fight each other.

Slowly things are getting better, black culture and white culture are very much intermixing and intertwining.

This Trump thing is just a momentary breakdown in all communication, and has emboldened radicalism and nationalism that is bad for racial unity.
See, I completely agree with you here, but saying that black Americans should be allowed to openly critique 'whiteness' as if its as simple a term as that seems short-sighted and not very proactive in helping race relations.

I also feel that a lot of the work the American Left is undertaking now is also harming race relations in the long run by trying to 'fix' past wrongs, as opposed to setting up genuinely all-inclusive policies that aren't essentially just diametric opposites to how they perceive the past to be (e.g. diversity quotas, which I understand and agree with in theory, but in practice they can, imo, damage the ethos of 'you can succeed regardless of your race').

I wish I had more outright solutions to these problems, so I'm not saying I know it all, I just feel (and am worried) that the path the left is taking could end up backfiring.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:18 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
The White people of the time forced black people to form groups through their policies on segregation. The reason we still have things like all-black colleges and all-black churches is because of the tradition of "black people by themselves" that was established by white policy.
Hmm, a fair point. I guess that does put a spin on the existence of such groups. I was seeing them more like advanced college 'societies', such as an autistic society, or an LGBT society. Somewhere where minority groups can get to know other people in their general bracket and learn more about themselves.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:20 PM
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Firefly218
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
See, I completely agree with you here, but saying that black Americans should be allowed to openly critique 'whiteness' as if its as simple a term as that seems short-sighted and not very proactive in helping race relations.

I also feel that a lot of the work the American Left is undertaking now is also harming race relations in the long run by trying to 'fix' past wrongs, as opposed to setting up genuinely all-inclusive policies that aren't essentially just diametric opposites to how they perceive the past to be (e.g. diversity quotas, which I understand and agree with in theory, but in practice they can, imo, damage the ethos of 'you can succeed regardless of your race').

I wish I had more outright solutions to these problems, so I'm not saying I know it all, I just feel (and am worried) that the path the left is taking could end up backfiring.
When I commented that black people get to say whatever they want about white people, I was of course exaggerating for comic effect. But that article was written by a black person and it expressed her genuine feelings, and I'm sure the feelings of many black people at this point in history. And this is why historical context matters, because black people's concerns are backed by troves of evidence.

So if there's a national conversation to take place, this is a sentiment that needs to be addressed and not set aside or discarded. It begins with white people accepting their privilege and misuses of power and with black people letting down their guards and shutters.

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:32 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
Black people are allowed to say anything they want about white people, they earned it. Forget about reparations for hundreds of years of slavery, white people getting mad at that headline is hilarious.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
Maybe cut down on the white nationalism rallies and electing Donald Trump, THEN we can discuss an integrated culture

quote:
Originally posted by Firefly218
And Trump’s election does matter, millions and millions of primarily white people chose to elect Trump despite his track record of racism, perhaps even because of it.

This is really disgusting and racist, and it baffles me that people think these views are justified.

Can I judge all black people as violent and dangerous off of the black violent crime rate? Can I judge all black people as stupid via racial IQ distributions? Can I judge all black people as irresponsible by the frighteningly high single motherhood rate among black people? No, because that would be ****ing disgusting and racist.

The idea that you can take the perceived typical characteristics of a racial group and apply them indiscriminately to all members of that racial group is the textbook definition of racism, because you're holding people to the standard of their skin color instead of the standard of being an individual. This is not what Martin Luther King Jr. was marching for, this is completely opposed to the liberal principle of individualism. It's disgusting and racist that people like the man who wrote this article thinks he can judge me or hold me to a different standard based on the actions of my ancestors or people who happen to look like me, and also disgusting that you are standing in defense of this.

And if the issue is Trump, then why not ask "can my children be friends with Trump supporters of any race" and leave the white people who didn't vote for Trump out of it, and hold the racial minorities who voted for Trump to the same standard? This argument doesn't even make logically coherent sense, because it's not holding people to the standard of whether or not they voted for Trump, it's holding them to the standard of whether or not they're white. I know I didn't vote for Trump.

Also building off of the Trump thing... voting for a candidate is a multifaceted thing, and there are many reasons why a person would've voted for Trump that have absolutely nothing to do with race. As one example, if we're going to attack Trump's history, plenty of people feel that given some of Hillary's very sketchy and questionable actions she shouldn't be trusted in the oval office, or given Hillary's statements about a no fly zone in Syria, or just in general Hillary's contempt for about half of the country when she called them deplorables. Another factor is policy concerns, and plenty of people disagree that economic policy should shift further to the left... which is why a lot of people vote Republican and were opposed to Obama care. Also in regards to policy, plenty of people in the working class had concerns about immigration, because when you bring a lot of low-skilled laborers into the country, you increase the competition in the work force these people have to face up to, and because their labor becomes more abundant, it becomes devalued and their wages go down. And there's several other policy concerns as well, and quite frankly, some people simply found Hillary's platform and the DNC platform completely antithetical to their political beliefs. Also... what policy has Trump pursued that is discriminatory towards black people? How do black people have any less rights now than when before Trump was president?

Basically I find the idea that voting for Trump constitutes some betrayal of the black race as absurd, and what I find equally absurd is the implicit suggestion that voters should've made all of their policy concerns and all of their other concerns subordinate to how black people feel about Trump, and that because people didn't do this, it's fair to characterize the entire white race as traitorous and untrustworthy. And once again, this is coming for someone who did not vote for Trump.

On the topic of white supremacy and white nationalism, I am not a part of the alt-right, and the vast majority of white people are not a part of the alt-right and in fact condemn the alt-right, so the idea that you can apply some collective judgment of the white race based on this is absurd. Again, can I apply a collective judgment to the black race based on some of the more violent actions and rhetoric of BLM members (Chanting "What do we want? Dead cops!" violently attacking white people, vandalizing public property, etc.)? No I can't and I shouldn't because that would make me a racist prick.

My existence as a white person who doesn't support white supremacy isn't responsible for the existence and growth of the alt-right, but I can guarantee you articles like "Can my children be friends with white people?", people like you defending prejudice and bigotry towards white people, policies like affirmative action and diversity quotas that discriminate against white people on the basis of race, people who suggest that someone has less of a right to an opinion on something because they're "a ****ing white male", college professors who say "All I want for Christmas is white genocide" and "that shooter who shot up all those people in Texas was motivated by whiteness, and when whiteness feels threatened it lashes out," and courses in public taxpayer funded universities where professors teach that all white people are racist and all black people aren't racist... all of these things are helping the alt-right find favor with more and more white people. Ironically, pieces like this article are part of the problem of the alt-right.

I don't give two flying ****s what someone's race is or what race somebody's generalizing is, because that's what it means to hold principles. Racial collectivism, and racial generalizations, and racial bigotry, all of these things are wrong regardless of the perpetrator and who these things are targeted at, and they're disgusting. What we need is a return to individualism and an emphasis on the ideology inherent to actual liberalism and to the message that MLK taught, not this racially collectivist "it's okay when this group does it because **** the other group" bullshit.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:32 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Firefly218
When I commented that black people get to say whatever they want about white people, I was of course exaggerating for comic effect. But that article was written by a black person and it expressed her genuine feelings, and I'm sure the feelings of many black people at this point in history. And this is why historical context matters, because black people's concerns are backed by troves of evidence.

So if there's a national conversation to take place, this is a sentiment that needs to be addressed and not set aside or discarded. It begins with white people accepting their privilege and misuses of power and with black people letting down their guards and shutters.
I can see where you're coming from much clearer now. And overall, I agree. Not all black people in the USA have cross-mingled with white people extensively and so I can see why they might have the perspectives they do.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 04:35 PM
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cdtm
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Collectivism is only authoritarism by another name. There's always someone leading these societies, and making decisions on everyone's behalf.

Which leads me to my latest trigger:


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ngerous-leaders



quote:
Here's an interesting observation: Muammar Qaddafi, Hosni Mubarek, and even Saddam Hussein, didn't even make the list of the world's most corrupt leaders. When it comes to corruption, abuses of power, and sheer evil, these guys aren't in the same category as Cambodia's Pol Pot, North Korea's Kim Jong-Il (or even worse, his father, Kim Il, Sung), let alone Hitler or Stalin. Why so many corrupt and horrible leaders?

A lot of this has to do with our evolutionary history. Being social animals, we are "programmed" to try to lead and to be led. All highly social animals - apes, wolves, and humans - are governed by dominance hierarchies. We all too easily "fall in line" and go along with those recognized as leaders. The obedience studies of Stanley Milgram illustrate this tendency to "blindly" carry out the orders of an authority, even when it means shocking and potentially harming an innocent victim.

Leadership scholar, Jean Lipman-Blumen, has studied what she calls toxic leaders. Toxic leaders are those whose "destructive behaviors and dysfunctional personal characteristics generate serious and enduring poisonous effects...on those they lead." Toxic leaders work toward their own selfish ends and usually leave followers "worse off than they found us." She believes we follow bad leaders because of our inherent belief in leaders and our desire to be protected by them.

We also easily believe that leaders are somehow special. We put our leaders on a pedestal - what Jim Meindl calls our "Romance of Leadership," and we sometimes turn a blind eye to the leader's misbehavior. The real problem occurs when the leader begins to believe he or she (although the number of horrible women leaders is few) is indeed special and "above the law."

We have a sort of apathy about leaders. We willingly tolerate their misbehavior, and often follow them unquestioningly. The toxic leader appears initially as a seeming hero or savior, but soon begins the slide into corruption. This certainly is the profile of the recently toppled leaders.

The only defense against corrupt leaders is to stand up to them. But that is more easily said than done. We are seeing that played out on the various revolutions in the Middle East and North Africa. Sadly, it takes thousands of people taking heroic action, to say "enough is enough," and they risk their lives and their families' lives in doing so.

The trick is to initially choose leaders with character, who will not give in to the temptation of power. But followers also need to be vigilant -- to not be complacent, and question the leader's actions and motives. That is the only way to avoid being controlled and suppressed by corrupt leaders.



This desire to be lead from above, and the common theme of leaders from up high treating followers like disposable pawns for their own benefit is so prevailant, I can't believe it's limited to different forms of government. It must be engraved in our very natures.

The harsh, cruel truth seems to be that humanity is an adaptable hive mind that exists soley to benefit it's leading class. It doesn't matter how someone becomes an elite, once they do everyone falls in line to support them.

And the elites become psychopaths who use what they've earned to their benefit, no matter how many lives they ruin.

If you've read Shogun: A Novel of Japan by James Clavell, where every character is simply an expendable pawn to Toranaga's ambitions, fighting and dying for his glory, it's all like that. Everywhere. Every hierarchy imaginable, all to benfit those few who work their way to the top.

Triggered.


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What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 08:08 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I mean the existence of the group itself disgusts me tbh. I've never been a fan of racial collectivism. I and other people are disgusted if a white interest group forms in politics, I think we should hold that standard universally because that's what it means to have principles.


What do you think about scholarships for colleges where you need to be a certain race or gender to qualify?


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Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 09:51 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
What do you think about scholarships for colleges where you need to be a certain race or gender to qualify?

Also disgusting and racist.


__________________

Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 10:02 PM
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socool8520
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^ Disgusting is harsh, but I don't support it. Just as i don't believe anyone should be discriminated against for their race, gender, etc. I also don't think it should be used as an advantage.


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2017 10:06 PM
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cdtm
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Gender: Unspecified
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Not a story, but have you ever seen a modern childrens show?

"The music stopped! Without the music, the bees won't polinate! Without the music, the workers won't work!"


...soo, they're pushing to kids if the masses aren't entertained, they won't make babies or work their menial jobs..

#$/@/@??? mad


__________________
What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Old Post Nov 19th, 2017 10:24 PM
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