It's fine, I should have restrained myself from responding and thus trying to solo the entire Maul fanbase at kmc at once
That would clog the thread even more, I'll just respond to the last part of his counter I suppose, then maybe Ant's willing to clog through all the pages here to respond to each part, I won't blame him if he isn't
I think the main factor in who wins between these two will always be circumstance and story: I would favour Maul as far as the Force is concerned but, if we are to assume Kenobi's power increased significantly between SoD and RotS, which I suppose it could well have, then it could still be a very close fight. Though, as I argued some time ago, there's many indicators Maul's own power would have increased after the events of SoD, so who knows.
__________________ “There are aspects of who we are that can only be revealed to us in the deepest pit of intolerable suffering, in those moments when all else is torn away—when we stand at the very brink of eternity itself and stare death in the face.” —Darth Sidious
Anyway, whatever power edge Maul may or may not have against Kenobi wasn't particularly relevant in their fights setting aside when maul had backup.
Instead it was Kenobi's superiority with the blade that proved the most important factor under a mix of both favorable and unfavorable circumstances. Given Kenobi after SOD has had DD, the outer rim sieges, and a massive emotional triumph against Anakin to grow from, we have no reason to assume Kenobi still isn't the superior swordsman. That should be sufficient to give him a win here.
That said, the fight should be a very good one. As Rebels Maul has managed to find himself in the range of a rots Kenobi+ duelist in Rebels Vader and Rebels Kenobi despite growing less than Kenobi did post-ROTS, the gap between the two can't be a big one.
Umm what? Maul's power 'edge' is relevant... He's choked/dominated Obi-Wan with the force for long periods of time with little effort in Canon and Legends.
Got any quotes to backup Kenobi's 'superiority with the blade?' Or just assumptions?
It's pretty clear that Kenobi has been kept alive thanks to the plot. Maul could have killed him a myriad of times throughout TCW, but that was not his ultimate goal. He has said time and time again that he just wants Obi to 'suffer' and 'feel the pain he felt.' It's not until Rebels when Filoni decides he can't be bothered dragging this pathetic, butchered character out any longer and ends him.
Last edited by godemperortrump on Oct 1st, 2017 at 12:43 PM
He's either done it when Kenobi was injured, when Kenobi was focused on Maul's brother, when Maul is explicitly stated to have lost control of his rage, and is drawing on animalistic rage, or when they aren't even fighting. In terms of actual straight up duels, Maul has failed to make use of the force be it season 4 or their 1 v 1 on florrum.
If he's not able to beat Kenobi with the force as of TCW, he's not doing it to ROTS Kenobi.
Well we have their actual fights where Kenobi's the one landing disorientating kicks, flooring or incapping him while injured or dealing with all his attacks while wrecking Maul's brother with unfavorable and favorable circumstances. Maul only ever managed to "beat" Kenobi when he exploited Kenobi circumstantially being a wreck mentally and physically with dun moch, something he's failed to replicate vs Kenobi without aid. And even then, the fight was more or less a stalemate being slightly in Maul's favor per Feloni, purely due to the situation.
Kenobi's better because he's repeatedly shown he's better.
Also notice in image 4 how Maul has stopped the 'choke gesture' and has his focus on Plo Koon, yet Kenobi is still on the ground with his hands around his neck desperate for air.
This choke is enough to leave the durable Obi-Wan injured and incapable of continuing.
Pretty impressive force feat for Maul.
You mean the time where Kenobi is fighting with duel blades and a completely different style? Something Maul would not expect him to do? Add in a rage amp due to the death of his great friend Adi Gallia and you have reasons... This was clearly circumstantial.
You say this as if Kenobi's victories against Maul weren't circumstantial (TPM, Rebels and the one time in TCW which has already been addressed)
- TPM is obvious, young pre-prime Obi-Wan was dominated by Maul even with a rage amp. Also extreme PIS. I don't think that needs further explanation
- Rebels Maul was physically deteriorating (chunks falling off his metal legs) and he'd been wandering around the deserts of Tatooine for two weeks without Food or water. Not to mention Maul's arrogance and Kenobi's will to protect Luke at all costs.
And yes, Kenobi isn't able to break out of the chokehold, TCW Kenobi isn't superior to TCW Maul as a force user and hence isn't going to be overpowering his grip while he's struggling for air.
Maul can't handle offensive duelists? Just how sh!t do you think he is?
And nah, Kenobi being forced to use a secondary style as he would get outlasted if he tried to use his soresu against not only Maul, but Oppress as well isn't really something that would help him vs Maul in a 1 v 1.
You wanna quote me on that rage amp? Kenobi did focus himself, something he's done on a whim in situations as emotionally stimulating as blaster deflection, but that's distinctly different from a rage amp, losing control of your rage, which, unlike what Kenobi did, is circumstantial:
INB4 Thor confuses parts of supplementary material that contradict canon with parts of supplementary material that supplement it.
Between Oppress having backup which forced Kenobi into utilizing a secondary style, you're right.
I'll help you out though, there is some actual context against Maul that you can argue compensates for the circumstances Kenobi had to deal with as he outperformed Maul despite being pre-prime:
Maul had an agility boost once he got new legs.
Hey man, I got you something: (please log in to view the image)
None of this matters coz:
In that same interview Feloni denies him being externally empowered by the sense of loss he had from Galaia's death and attributes Kenobi focusing himself to Kenobi's own personal traits. And the amp isn't a rage-based one, it's a focus based one. A boost that Kenobi is capable of replicating:
And guess what, we see Kenobi replicating it at will:
The circumstantial rage amp you're looking for isn't even a rage amp and it isn't circumstantial.
Look back at read the counters I posted vs Ant if you want. I'd have completed it, but I was too busy dealing with scrubs like you.