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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Obi-Wan Kenobi (ROTS) vs Darth Maul (SoD)


Obi-Wan Kenobi (ROTS) vs Darth Maul (SoD)
Started by: DarthAnt66

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chingchangwalla
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Unbowed
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Beautiful gif


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Old Post Aug 20th, 2017 02:52 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Maul 'skeptics' love to point out his embarrassing encounters with padawans and almost getting his face bitten off by a dog and that's all relevant. I need some convincing that Maul is still a somewhat decent combatant, where is ILS...?



Yeah a dog jumped on him one time. He must be shit tier.

Old Post Aug 20th, 2017 03:57 PM
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YousufKhan1212
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Maul 'skeptics' love to point out his embarrassing encounters with padawans and almost getting his face bitten off by a dog and that's all relevant. I need some convincing that Maul is still a somewhat decent combatant, where is ILS...?


LOL.

Old Post Aug 21st, 2017 03:14 PM
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BlueTiger1144
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Maul. Stronger. Equally skilled. More powerful.

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 10:33 AM
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Rockydonovang
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Maul fans feeling the need to give ant backup has completely derailed the fck out of this debate

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 10:48 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Maul fans feeling the need to give ant backup has completely derailed the fck out of this debate



Apologies for the part I've played in that. Let it get back to you and Ant. Maybe repost your last response to him..

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 10:57 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Apologies for the part I've played in that. Let it get back to you and Ant. Maybe repost your last response to him..

It's fine, I should have restrained myself from responding and thus trying to solo the entire Maul fanbase at kmc at once

That would clog the thread even more, I'll just respond to the last part of his counter I suppose, then maybe Ant's willing to clog through all the pages here to respond to each part, I won't blame him if he isn't

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 11:05 AM
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nfactor1995
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by nfactor1995
This debate between Kbro and Ant cannot be allowed to die

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 12:15 AM
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godemperortrump
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Pathetic Kbro. Maul stomps Kenobi for the hundredth time

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 12:41 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by godemperortrump
Pathetic Kbro. Maul stomps Kenobi for the hundredth time

I bet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no4SxdIIDBE

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 12:50 AM
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Rebel95
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I'd favor Kenobi, but it could go either way

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 02:09 AM
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ILS
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I think the main factor in who wins between these two will always be circumstance and story: I would favour Maul as far as the Force is concerned but, if we are to assume Kenobi's power increased significantly between SoD and RotS, which I suppose it could well have, then it could still be a very close fight. Though, as I argued some time ago, there's many indicators Maul's own power would have increased after the events of SoD, so who knows.


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Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 08:55 AM
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ChocolateMuesli
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maul

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 10:09 AM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ILS
I think the main factor in who wins between these two will always be circumstance and story: I would favour Maul as far as the Force is concerned but, if we are to assume Kenobi's power increased significantly between SoD and RotS, which I suppose it could well have, then it could still be a very close fight. Though, as I argued some time ago, there's many indicators Maul's own power would have increased after the events of SoD, so who knows.

sabers are a thing ya know

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 12:05 PM
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Rockydonovang
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Anyway, whatever power edge Maul may or may not have against Kenobi wasn't particularly relevant in their fights setting aside when maul had backup.

Instead it was Kenobi's superiority with the blade that proved the most important factor under a mix of both favorable and unfavorable circumstances. Given Kenobi after SOD has had DD, the outer rim sieges, and a massive emotional triumph against Anakin to grow from, we have no reason to assume Kenobi still isn't the superior swordsman. That should be sufficient to give him a win here.

That said, the fight should be a very good one. As Rebels Maul has managed to find himself in the range of a rots Kenobi+ duelist in Rebels Vader and Rebels Kenobi despite growing less than Kenobi did post-ROTS, the gap between the two can't be a big one.

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 12:20 PM
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godemperortrump
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Anyway, whatever power edge Maul may or may not have against Kenobi wasn't particularly relevant in their fights setting aside when maul had backup.

Instead it was Kenobi's superiority with the blade that proved the most important factor under a mix of both favorable and unfavorable circumstances. Given Kenobi after SOD has had DD, the outer rim sieges, and a massive emotional triumph against Anakin to grow from, we have no reason to assume Kenobi still isn't the superior swordsman. That should be sufficient to give him a win here.

That said, the fight should be a very good one. As Rebels Maul has managed to find himself in the range of a rots Kenobi+ duelist in Rebels Vader and Rebels Kenobi despite growing less than Kenobi did post-ROTS, the gap between the two can't be a big one.


Umm what? Maul's power 'edge' is relevant... He's choked/dominated Obi-Wan with the force for long periods of time with little effort in Canon and Legends.

Got any quotes to backup Kenobi's 'superiority with the blade?' Or just assumptions?

It's pretty clear that Kenobi has been kept alive thanks to the plot. Maul could have killed him a myriad of times throughout TCW, but that was not his ultimate goal. He has said time and time again that he just wants Obi to 'suffer' and 'feel the pain he felt.' It's not until Rebels when Filoni decides he can't be bothered dragging this pathetic, butchered character out any longer and ends him.

Last edited by godemperortrump on Oct 1st, 2017 at 12:43 PM

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 12:39 PM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by godemperortrump
Umm what? Maul's power 'edge' is relevant... He's choked/dominated Obi-Wan with the force for long periods of time with little effort in Canon and Legends.

He's either done it when Kenobi was injured, when Kenobi was focused on Maul's brother, when Maul is explicitly stated to have lost control of his rage, and is drawing on animalistic rage, or when they aren't even fighting. In terms of actual straight up duels, Maul has failed to make use of the force be it season 4 or their 1 v 1 on florrum.

If he's not able to beat Kenobi with the force as of TCW, he's not doing it to ROTS Kenobi.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by godemperortrump
Got any quotes to backup Kenobi's 'superiority with the blade?' Or just assumptions?

Well we have their actual fights where Kenobi's the one landing disorientating kicks, flooring or incapping him while injured or dealing with all his attacks while wrecking Maul's brother with unfavorable and favorable circumstances. Maul only ever managed to "beat" Kenobi when he exploited Kenobi circumstantially being a wreck mentally and physically with dun moch, something he's failed to replicate vs Kenobi without aid. And even then, the fight was more or less a stalemate being slightly in Maul's favor per Feloni, purely due to the situation.

Kenobi's better because he's repeatedly shown he's better.

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 12:54 PM
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godemperortrump
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quote:
He's either done it when Kenobi was injured, when Kenobi was focused on Maul's brother, when Maul is explicitly stated to have lost control of his rage, and is drawing on animalistic rage, or when they aren't even fighting. In terms of actual straight up duels, Maul has failed to make use of the force be it season 4 or their 1 v 1 on florrum.

If he's not able to beat Kenobi with the force as of TCW, he's not doing it to ROTS Kenobi.


Are you serious?

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Also notice in image 4 how Maul has stopped the 'choke gesture' and has his focus on Plo Koon, yet Kenobi is still on the ground with his hands around his neck desperate for air.

This choke is enough to leave the durable Obi-Wan injured and incapable of continuing.

Pretty impressive force feat for Maul.

quote:
Well we have their actual fights where Kenobi's the one landing disorientating kicks, flooring or incapping him while injured or dealing with all his attacks while wrecking Maul's brother with unfavorable and favorable circumstances. Maul only ever managed to "beat" Kenobi when he exploited Kenobi circumstantially being a wreck mentally and physically with dun moch, something he's failed to replicate vs Kenobi without aid. And even then, the fight was more or less a stalemate being slightly in Maul's favor per Feloni, purely due to the situation.


You mean the time where Kenobi is fighting with duel blades and a completely different style? Something Maul would not expect him to do? Add in a rage amp due to the death of his great friend Adi Gallia and you have reasons... This was clearly circumstantial.

You say this as if Kenobi's victories against Maul weren't circumstantial (TPM, Rebels and the one time in TCW which has already been addressed)

- TPM is obvious, young pre-prime Obi-Wan was dominated by Maul even with a rage amp. Also extreme PIS. I don't think that needs further explanation

- Rebels Maul was physically deteriorating (chunks falling off his metal legs) and he'd been wandering around the deserts of Tatooine for two weeks without Food or water. Not to mention Maul's arrogance and Kenobi's will to protect Luke at all costs.

"When you get to this episode Obi-Wan is much more focused and ready. Not only that but when Adi Gallia dies he gains even more focus and has to kind of right that wrong."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_...p;v=zvGXSe8fvrs

quote:

Kenobi's better because he's repeatedly shown he's better.


Which you didn't prove...

Last edited by godemperortrump on Oct 1st, 2017 at 02:31 PM

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 02:17 PM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by godemperortrump
Are you serious?

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I take it you can read, right?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
He's either done it when Kenobi was injured, when Kenobi was focused on Maul's brother, when Maul is explicitly stated to have lost control of his rage, and is drawing on animalistic rage, or when they aren't even fighting.

And yes, Kenobi isn't able to break out of the chokehold, TCW Kenobi isn't superior to TCW Maul as a force user and hence isn't going to be overpowering his grip while he's struggling for air.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
You mean the time where Kenobi is fighting with duel blades and a completely different style? Something Maul would not expect him to do?

Maul can't handle offensive duelists? Just how sh!t do you think he is? sad

And nah, Kenobi being forced to use a secondary style as he would get outlasted if he tried to use his soresu against not only Maul, but Oppress as well isn't really something that would help him vs Maul in a 1 v 1.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Add in a rage amp due to the death of his great friend Adi Gallia and you have reasons

You wanna quote me on that rage amp? Kenobi did focus himself, something he's done on a whim in situations as emotionally stimulating as blaster deflection, but that's distinctly different from a rage amp, losing control of your rage, which, unlike what Kenobi did, is circumstantial:
quote:
He lunged and sliced the Zabrak's yellow-and-black arm off at the shoulder. Savage howled in agony, retreating toward Maul as his brother shoved Obi-Wan backward with a blast of Force power. Maul stared at Obi-Wan, eyes blazing, the hatred boiling inside him. But then he regained control of his emotions, and shut off the surge of animal rage. He had bigger plans now than merely revenge, and settling the score with Obi-Wan could wait.
Credit: Shadow Conspiracy

INB4 Thor confuses parts of supplementary material that contradict canon with parts of supplementary material that supplement it.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
... This was clearly circumstantial.

Between Oppress having backup which forced Kenobi into utilizing a secondary style, you're right. thumb up

I'll help you out though, there is some actual context against Maul that you can argue compensates for the circumstances Kenobi had to deal with as he outperformed Maul despite being pre-prime:

Maul had an agility boost once he got new legs.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
You say this as if Kenobi's victories against Maul weren't circumstantial (TPM, Rebels and the one time in TCW which has already been addressed)


- TPM is obvious, young pre-prime Obi-Wan was dominated by Maul even with a rage amp. Also extreme PIS. I don't think that needs further explanation

Hey man, I got you something:
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
- Rebels Maul was physically deteriorating (chunks falling off his metal legs) and he'd been wandering around the deserts of Tatooine for two weeks without Food or water. Not to mention Maul's arrogance and Kenobi's will to protect Luke at all costs.

None of this matters coz:
quote:
" I felt that with Maul, any moment that he parries Obi-Wan is saying that he’s as good as Obi-Wan and I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think Maul ever accepted a path of selflessness and enlightenment and in the end, never getting over his need for revenge, and his anger and the way his life worked out is what undid him."

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
"When you get to this episode Obi-Wan is much more focused and ready. Not only that but when Adi Gallia dies he gains even more focus and has to kind of right that wrong."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_...p;v=zvGXSe8fvrs

In that same interview Feloni denies him being externally empowered by the sense of loss he had from Galaia's death and attributes Kenobi focusing himself to Kenobi's own personal traits. And the amp isn't a rage-based one, it's a focus based one. A boost that Kenobi is capable of replicating:
quote:
"Empty meditation: which purges negative emotions and lets you step away from attachment. This can also be achieved in an awake state that reduces distraction and increases focus on a task-you may find it to improve your ability to repair a device, your skill in sifting through the archives, or your combat skills".
(Annotation) Highly Recommended! -Kenobi
The Jedi Path: The Third Pillar: Self-discipline

And guess what, we see Kenobi replicating it at will:
quote:
An instant later the Force had him hurtling through a storm of blasterfire as every combat droid in the control center opened up on him at once. Letting go of intention, letting go of desire, letting go of life, Obi-Wan fixed his entire attention on a thread of the Force that pulled him toward Grievous: not where Grievous was, but where Grievous would be when Obi-Wan got there...

The circumstantial rage amp you're looking for isn't even a rage amp and it isn't circumstantial.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Which you didn't prove... [/B]

Look back at read the counters I posted vs Ant if you want. I'd have completed it, but I was too busy dealing with scrubs like you. wink

Old Post Oct 1st, 2017 03:04 PM
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