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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Rank the Following Above-Vader Force-Users


Rank the Following Above-Vader Force-Users
Started by: Geistalt

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Ursumeles
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Registered: Sep 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by thesithmaster
Knightfall Vader was never placed on par with Sidious. There are roughly seven quotes stating Sidious was the most powerful, opposed to two that state Vader is the most powerful (it's obvious which one of the stances is right- the one backed up by seven sources opposed to the one backed by two) and Lucas was talking about Vader's potential.

Anakins potential is >>> Sidious' tho lmfao


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Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 07:44 PM
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thesithmaster
Dark Lord of the Sith

Registered: Jul 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Anakins potential is >>> Sidious' tho lmfao


Yes, his potential was Sidious+ before the thing, and he was as strong as the Emperor in the Force, but when he got crippled he wasn't as strong, and he was like Maul or Dooku as in that his potential was inferior to Palpatine's.


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Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 08:05 PM
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thesithmaster
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Geistalt
You obviously haven't read the quotes (hint: they don't say he was stronger than RotS Sidious).





And even then, there's ambiguity as to whether or not he was exactly as strong or his point of view was skewed with hubris.


Read the quote: it says Palpatine wanted someone who WOULD become more powerful than him (which means that he didn't have someone more powerful than him) but that his plan got screwed up by Obi-Wan, crippling Vader and making him like Maul+Dooku, guys whose potential was below Sidious'. He wasn't as strong as the Emperor in Force POTENTIAL which does not equate to actual power that is usable in combat. KF Vader definitely has more potential, but he hasn't unlocked it.

And what does the second one prove? It says Vader's power was growing, and that Vader knew how powerful Sidious was. Even if Vader claimed parity with Sidious his arrogant opinion matters nothing when seven quotes say Sidious was the most powerful as of ROTS.

The quotes I was talking about weren't the ones you posted. They labeled Vader's Force abilities as unparalleled and Vader as far more dangerous than anyone in the universe. However, seven other quotes say Sidious was the most powerful.


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Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 08:12 PM
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Ursumeles
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by thesithmaster
Yes, his potential was Sidious+ before the thing, and he was as strong as the Emperor in the Force, but when he got crippled he wasn't as strong, and he was like Maul or Dooku as in that his potential was inferior to Palpatine's.

So...
1. Anakin's potential >>> Sidious'.
2. Iyo Sidious >> Anakin.

As strong as means equal to...to what should he refer, then? (Hint >>> =/= equal).


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Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 08:36 PM
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NewGuy01
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Registered: Jan 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Geistalt

Sidious: *fails to ragdoll Vader*
Luke: *ragdolls someone stronger than Vader*
NewGuy01: "Sidious is still stronger."


Lol, nice strawman. I would be interested in seeing you provide an instance of Sidious trying and failing to TK Vader, though, because nothing like that comes to mind.

Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 09:27 PM
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Geistalt
Creator of Destruction

Registered: Oct 2016
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The end of RotJ.


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Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 09:59 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Sidious never tried.


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Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 10:02 PM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sidious never tried.


This. Besides, Luke's never ragdolled Caedus in a combat situation either.

Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 10:07 PM
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Ursumeles
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Not to mention that Sidious was pre-prime.


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Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 10:23 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Omnipotent

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Beyond the beyond.


 

The arguments for Luke over Sidious in this thread are so dense.

But yes, Luke is more powerful, skilled, and versatile than Sidious.


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Old Post Aug 23rd, 2017 11:03 PM
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Rebel95
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by thesithmaster
Read the quote: it says Palpatine wanted someone who WOULD become more powerful than him (which means that he didn't have someone more powerful than him)

No one ever said he was stronger than Sidious, the quote says after his injuries he was no longer "as strong as the Emperor", implying that they were equals before.

Last edited by Rebel95 on Aug 24th, 2017 at 01:00 AM

Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 12:57 AM
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Rockydonovang
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Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by thesithmaster
Knightfall Vader was never placed on par with Sidious. There are roughly seven quotes stating Sidious was the most powerful, opposed to two that state Vader is the most powerful (it's obvious which one of the stances is right- the one backed up by seven sources opposed to the one backed by two) and Lucas was talking about Vader's potential.

How can you possibly conclude that "Anakin is as strong as sidious" is talking bout potential when Sidious has vastly inferior potential to Anakin? erm

Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 01:11 AM
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Kurk
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Registered: Jul 2015
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You forgot to put Dooku on the list


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Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 01:20 AM
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Geistalt
Creator of Destruction

Registered: Oct 2016
Location: True Happiness


 

Anyways, dumbassery aside, 1 through 5 look pretty set in stone.

5. Valkorion
6. Darth Nihilus
7. Darth Plagueis
8. Darth Krayt (for using Dark Transfer to resurrect himself and punching out Abeloth)
9. Kyp Durron
10. Raynar Thul
11. Revan
12. Darth Caedus

8-12 look up for debate, most of all.

I ought to make versus threads for them.


__________________
Through passion, I gain the will to act.
Through that will, I gain the power to destroy.
Everything.

Fvck Islam. 4srs.
Fvck Oded Yinon, too.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 04:45 PM
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thesithmaster
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Registered: Jul 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
How can you possibly conclude that "Anakin is as strong as sidious" is talking bout potential when Sidious has vastly inferior potential to Anakin? erm


If you're much better than someone, then you need to be at least as strong as them. Vader was no longer as strong as Sidious in the Force. He was weaker. What George was trying to say was that after Vader was crippled he lost lots of his Force potential, and that Vader was weaker than Sidious. So, no longer stronger than Sidious, not even as strong as Sidious. It's not rocket science.


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Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 04:58 PM
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DarthAnt66
Last of the Jedi

Registered: Feb 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by thesithmaster
Knightfall Vader was never placed on par with Sidious.


Eh, not necessarily.

There's perhaps a dozen quotes stating Anakin's the most powerful Jedi. Considering Yoda has quotes too, it's fair to break even and put them on par.

We also have quotes (and feats) to demonstrate that Anakin is the greatest warrior of the era, in which Sidious isn't exempt.

With KF!Vader, we're dealing with an even more powerful version than Jedi Anakin, who was someone Yoda level in Force power and Yoda+ level in combat.

Everything considered, I think it's clear KF!Vader can trade blows with Sidious. Defeat him? Probably not, principally due to character differences, but it's close.


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Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 05:05 PM
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thesithmaster
Dark Lord of the Sith

Registered: Jul 2017
Location: The Sith Temple


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Eh, not necessarily.

There's perhaps a dozen quotes stating Anakin's the most powerful Jedi. Considering Yoda has quotes too, it's fair to break even and put them on par.

We also have quotes (and feats) to demonstrate that Anakin is the greatest warrior of the era, in which Sidious isn't exempt.

With KF!Vader, we're dealing with an even more powerful version than Jedi Anakin, who was someone Yoda level in Force power and Yoda+ level in combat.

Everything considered, I think it's clear KF!Vader can trade blows with Sidious. Defeat him? Probably not, principally due to character differences, but it's close.


A dozen? I counted, like, five. At best. Discounting maybe a character opinion or two. Yoda has more quotes. It's not fair to put them on par. More sources have Yoda as the most powerful, thus Yoda is the most powerful.

Anakin's feats do not match up to Sidious at all and we have two quotes that claim Anakin is the best. We have seven putting Sidious as the most powerful. Obviously, Sidious>Anakin. One or two quotes mean nothing when we have seven stating otherwise.

Anakin was not Yoda level in Force. Statements debunk this, feats do too. Yoda+level in combat is also ludicrous. They're equal in technical skill but bar one statement Yoda has much better feats physically- stalemating Sidious who moved faster than Anakin can see and has much better speed feats than Anakin. Even pre-prime. Yoda is above Anakin. In nearly if not every category relevant to combat.

And by trading blows, it depends. If it's clashing blades a few times, yes. Threatening Sidious? Having a close fight with him? Absolutely out of Vader's capabilities.


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Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 05:43 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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Hey sithmaster, you found that evidence for Zonakin being >Knightfall Anakin you said you had?

Mind posting it? smile

Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 05:46 PM
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Haschwalth
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Hey sithmaster, you found that evidence for Zonakin being >Knightfall Anakin you said you had?

Mind posting it? smile

Tbh, why would knightfall be above, zonakin.
He should of been conflicted the moment, he was named darth Vader, not to mention killing youngling.

Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 06:27 PM
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thesithmaster
Dark Lord of the Sith

Registered: Jul 2017
Location: The Sith Temple


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Hey sithmaster, you found that evidence for Zonakin being >Knightfall Anakin you said you had?

Mind posting it? smile


I do have it but I'm keeping it for later. Just wait a bit more.


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Old Post Aug 24th, 2017 07:04 PM
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