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First Form Frieza vs Krillin
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carver9
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Another question, during the kameha show down between Krillin and Goku, why did Goku increase his energy? If someone was going all out, wouldn't they start off all of their attack at max power? Why did he keep adding power to his blast when he could've started his initial attack off at full power. Common sense here. The common sense part is, Goku is fighting his best friend. Goku has achieved God mode. Goku went Blue but he is still fighting his best friend. Him fighting his best friend, why would he try to turn him to ashes when the overall battle was to see how powerful Krillin has become? If I was testing my grandmother strength in a fun arm wrestling contest, me knowing I would win, I wouldn't try to rip her arm off. I would probably let her win.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:17 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
And by that, I'm guessing you don't have brothers. Or you'd know they can damn near kill each other sometimes. laughing

What a bizarre argument.


So I guess you'll incinerate your brother and other sibling in a spar. Makes sense when looking at the person that said this.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:18 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Krillin did nothing. Do you have a brother or sister? Do I need to post a scene of a serious Goku or are you going to think? THINK!!!

Gohan didn't stop holding back. Prove it.
Have slapped the brother/sister argument down. Has never been a factor in this series. Take your headcanon some place else. laughing out loud

Do I need to walk you through the fight between Goku and Krillin? I guess I do.



0:25-0:29: Krillin throws multiple destructo discs to keep Goku at bay. Is successful.

0:30-0:35: Krillin continues to keep Goku at bay by headfaking a solar flare. Keeps Goku from breaking past his projectile wall. Is successful.

0:36-0:41: Launches another wave of destructo discs at Goku. Draws first blood. Is successful.

0:42-0:45: Takes advantage of an off balance Goku to punch him away. Is successful.

0:46-0:52: Forces Goku to the edge of the ring so much that Goku is forced to go Super Saiyan.

At this point, the fight is pretty much over as Krillin can't engage SSJ Goku directly. But the fact that base Goku can't lay a finger on him is noteworthy. And we note that unlike with Gohan, Krillin wasn't using his signature attacks. Moreover, we see that this goes hand in hand with Goku thinking that Krillin would do just fine against Basil, a Fat Buu level opponent. All in all, an impressive feat and a noteworthy case of the writers saying "f-ck you" to the fandoms preconceptions about power levels. It's them saynig "We will do whatever the F-CK we want and we don't care who complains about it!" laughing out loud

I've already explained how Gohan stopped holding back against Krillin. Refute my explanation. And try to do so with something a little more compelling than "nuh-uh." Thanks. stick out tongue

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:19 PM
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Yeah, you're basically arguing Goku was holding back his blue so much, he was weaker then base.

Which is asinine. If Goku wanted to be as weak as base, he wouldn't have transformed.. Toriyama, hack he may be, had Goku transform into SSJ Blue for a reason.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:19 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, when I ask you this, I need a serious answer stilt. Let's say if youre Goku and your half bro was Krillin and you two were sparring with you knowing in your mind that you have a huge power advantage over him. Would you try to incinerate your brother while testing to see where he is at power wise?


I'd beat the crap out of him smile Little shit's had it coming for years.

I'd probably hold back the killing blow, though stick out tongue


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:23 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First Form Frieza vs Krillin

quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Using trickery, yes.

Lol... look at Gohan and Goku fight and compare it to his battle against Krillin. Lol...in one fight we have him standing in one spot asking Krillin twice, what's next. In the other fight, lol, do I even need to explain? Also, Gohan asked Goku to go all out. Goku was still holding back. Again, do I need to post a showing of an all out Goku? Question, did Goku fight Krillin anywhere close to the way he fought Cell?
Doesn't matter whether it's trickery or anything else (skill/experience). The bottom line he can fight and beat opponents on that level that now and that we have to accept that regardless of any preconceptions about power levels. confused

Lol . . . you're contradicting yourself. You said we should discount fights with family and friends, but now Gohan and Goku are okay because . . . you say so? laughing out loud Gohan and Goku IS okay and that's on account of the fact that this "you can't fight seriously against your family/friends" argument is BS and has never been a factor in this series. These guys are all master martial artists and masters of controlling their ki. That and they've got magic beans that can automatically heal all of your injuries (IIRC, Gohan received one after his fight with Goku) and magic wishes that can bring people back from the dead. So yeah . . . I don't buy this "Nobody can fight seriously against friends and family!" Not on this show. laughing

You can post whatever showings of Goku you like. I've seen every episode of DBS so you're not informing me of anything I don't know about. You just don't seem to like the fact that the writers couldn't care less about the fandom's idea of power levels. And none of that is my fault. Send Toei some hate mail maybe? confused

Did Goku fight Krillin anywhere close to where he fought Cell? lol, that's a stylistic argument. I'll tell you some other people he didn't fight like he fought Cell. Frieza, Beerus, Hit, Black and every opponent not named Cell. Art fallacy. Animation is not a valid argument.

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:29 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Have slapped the brother/sister argument down. Has never been a factor in this series. Take your headcanon some place else. laughing out loud

Do I need to walk you through the fight between Goku and Krillin? I guess I do.



0:25-0:29: Krillin throws multiple destructo discs to keep Goku at bay. Is successful.

0:30-0:35: Krillin continues to keep Goku at bay by headfaking a solar flare. Keeps Goku from breaking past his projectile wall. Is successful.

0:36-0:41: Launches another wave of destructo discs at Goku. Draws first blood. Is successful.

0:42-0:45: Takes advantage of an off balance Goku to punch him away. Is successful.

0:46-0:52: Forces Goku to the edge of the ring so much that Goku is forced to go Super Saiyan.

At this point, the fight is pretty much over as Krillin can't engage SSJ Goku directly. But the fact that base Goku can't lay a finger on him is noteworthy. And we note that unlike with Gohan, Krillin wasn't using his signature attacks. Moreover, we see that this goes hand in hand with Goku thinking that Krillin would do just fine against Basil, a Fat Buu level opponent. All in all, an impressive feat and a noteworthy case of the writers saying "f-ck you" to the fandoms preconceptions about power levels. It's them saynig "We will do whatever the F-CK we want and we don't care who complains about it!" laughing out loud

I've already explained how Gohan stopped holding back against Krillin. Refute my explanation. And try to do so with something a little more compelling than "nuh-uh." Thanks. stick out tongue


I see some improvement here. At first you were saying Krillin matched Blue, now you're saying the fight was over when Goku went super Saiyan. With that said, Goku didn't go Super Saiyan against Buu. Is Krillin more powerful than Buu? He also didn't go Blue against slim Buu as well.

Here we have Black hair Goku matching Beerus... A Beerus that was beginning to take the fight serious. Let me guess, Krillin could've replicated this showing and could've held Beerus off?

https://youtu.be/ehiw15S6O9k

During the time both Goku and Vegeta was changing Beerus sheets, Beerus hit both Vegeta and Goku with an all out attack. Let me guess, Krillin would've been ok? Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks hit base Vegeta in the forehead and he stood in one spot as if it didn't happen. Let me guess, you think Krillin can do that as well? This is trolling to its finest and as shown in the scene you posted, Goku was holding back.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:37 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I'd beat the crap out of him smile Little shit's had it coming for years.

I'd probably hold back the killing blow, though stick out tongue


Lol...


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:38 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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Anyway, Goku almost ended up incinerating Krillin...


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:50 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Anyway, Goku almost ended up incinerating Krillin...


Don't think he would've done it though. He wasn't even trying to fight Krillin that entire match, don't think he would've killed him.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 02:55 PM
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The last time Goku fought Krillin with out stipulations while being in his black form, he had to wear weighted clothing and weights and he still merked him...

https://youtu.be/5JriCtkcIZk

Krillin even admits Goku could kill him.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 03:06 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
I see some improvement here. At first you were saying Krillin matched Blue, now you're saying the fight was over when Goku went super Saiyan. With that said, Goku didn't go Super Saiyan against Buu. Is Krillin more powerful than Buu? He also didn't go Blue against slim Buu as well.

Here we have Black hair Goku matching Beerus... A Beerus that was beginning to take the fight serious. Let me guess, Krillin could've replicated this showing and could've held Beerus off?

https://youtu.be/ehiw15S6O9k

During the time both Goku and Vegeta was changing Beerus sheets, Beerus hit both Vegeta and Goku with an all out attack. Let me guess, Krillin would've been ok? Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks hit base Vegeta in the forehead and he stood in one spot as if it didn't happen. Let me guess, you think Krillin can do that as well? This is trolling to its finest and as shown in the scene you posted, Goku was holding back.
I've never placed Krillin on par with SSB Goku. At the same time, I've never ignored the fact that Krillin pushed back a kamehameha from SSB Goku. Even if not at full power, still considerably impressive and proof of Krillin's plot provided growth.

Goku did not go Super Saiyan against Buu and lost their match as a result. Goku went Super Saiyan against Krillin and managed to avoid losing as a result. And if not for regeneration and other hax abilities, I'd give current Krillin the match against Buu.

Beerus, as a result of lazy writing and retcons, is canonically far above SSB Goku and Golden Frieza (see the part where he blows away Sidra's god of destruction sphere with just his breath, whereas base Goku cannot remotely break out of it), therefore not serious in your clip. He was just having a good time there.

SSJ3 Gotenks is considered weak now. Back when "Saiyan Beyond God" form was a thing, it made sense. Now that that's been subtly retconned out of existence just bad writing. IIRC, the narrator even subtly suggest that Roshi > Goten and Trunks based on his 10 strongest fighters comment. Regardless, take your complaints up with the writers. laughing

Last edited by Dark-Kenshin on Aug 27th, 2017 at 04:12 PM

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 04:02 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
The last time Goku fought Krillin with out stipulations while being in his black form, he had to wear weighted clothing and weights and he still merked him...

https://youtu.be/5JriCtkcIZk

Krillin even admits Goku could kill him.
That's pre-plot-boost Krillin. And if that and episode 84 is not proof that the writers make this sh-t up as they go, I don't know what is. laughing

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 04:20 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I've never placed Krillin on par with SSB Goku. At the same time, I've never ignored the fact that Krillin pushed back a kamehameha from SSB Goku. Even if not at full power, still considerably impressive and proof of Krillin's plot provided growth.

Goku did not go Super Saiyan against Buu and lost their match as a result. Goku went Super Saiyan against Krillin and managed to avoid losing as a result. And if not for regeneration and other hax abilities, I'd give current Krillin the match against Buu.

Beerus, as a result of lazy writing and retcons, is canonically far above SSB Goku and Golden Frieza (see the part where he blows away Sidra's god of destruction sphere with just his breath, whereas base Goku cannot remotely break out of it), therefore not serious in your clip. He was just having a good time there.

SSJ3 Gotenks is considered weak now. Back when "Saiyan Beyond God" form was a thing, it made sense. Now that that's been subtly retconned out of existence just bad writing. IIRC, the narrator even subtly suggest that Roshi > Goten and Trunks based on his 10 strongest fighters comment. Regardless, take your complaints up with the writers. laughing


He was tanking Buu attacks though. I'm sure you think Krillin can replicate that showing.

So you admit Goku was holding back against Krillin?

Prove that Beerus was playing against Goku. You saying so doesn't change this. It was said he was getting angry. So again, can Krillin replicate the showing. Whis had to stop it because they were going to destroy everything. You can't say Beerus was playing but at the same time saying Goku was going all out against Krillin.

That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if Krillin can stand in one spot and allow Gotenks to pound on him with no damage? Please answer the question. I don't care what you think about the kids not joining the tournament. That's a new discussion entirely. We are discussing Krillin tanking blows that base Vegeta tanked.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 04:25 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
That's pre-plot-boost Krillin. And if that and episode 84 is not proof that the writers make this sh-t up as they go, I don't know what is. laughing


Post the clip where Krillin got this boost. If you post the scene from the cave, you might want to look at the episode.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 04:25 PM
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Lol Freeza uses Tk and makes him explode


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 04:34 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
He was tanking Buu attacks though. I'm sure you think Krillin can replicate that showing.

So you admit Goku was holding back against Krillin?

Prove that Beerus was playing against Goku. You saying so doesn't change this. It was said he was getting angry. So again, can Krillin replicate the showing. Whis had to stop it because they were going to destroy everything. You can't say Beerus was playing but at the same time saying Goku was going all out against Krillin.

That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if Krillin can stand in one spot and allow Gotenks to pound on him with no damage? Please answer the question. I don't care what you think about the kids not joining the tournament. That's a new discussion entirely. We are discussing Krillin tanking blows that base Vegeta tanked.


(1) Makes about as much sense as Krillin being able to overwhelm Goku in base, so maybe. stick out tongue

(2) I never said Goku wasn't holding back, which we plainly see he had been doing once he suddenly pushes back Krillin's kamehameha.

(3) Um . . . we KNOW Beerus was playing against Goku or are you actually trying to argue Base Goku is on Beerus level? Lol, no:



Blue doesn't compare either:



Goku is NOTHING to Beerus and that's a fact. Why are we arguing about blatant canon? confused

(4) You asked a question devoid of context (Saiyan Beyond God still being a thing) and I answered accordingly. And no, I don't think Krillin can sit there and tank Gotenks punches without flinching as he has no durability showings that indicate this. What we do know is that he has skills and experience enable him to get the better of Base Goku level opponents.

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 04:44 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Post the clip where Krillin got this boost. If you post the scene from the cave, you might want to look at the episode.
The minute we see Goku telling Gohan this wouldn't happen.

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 04:48 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
(1) Makes about as much sense as Krillin being able to overwhelm Goku in base, so maybe. stick out tongue

(2) I never said Goku wasn't holding back, which we plainly see he had been doing once he suddenly pushes back Krillin's kamehameha.

(3) Um . . . we KNOW Beerus was playing against Goku or are you actually trying to argue Base Goku is on Beerus level? Lol, no:



Blue doesn't compare either:



Goku is NOTHING to Beerus and that's a fact. Why are we arguing about blatant canon? confused

(4) You asked a question devoid of context (Saiyan Beyond God still being a thing) and I answered accordingly. And no, I don't think Krillin can sit there and tank Gotenks punches without flinching as he has no durability showings that indicate this. What we do know is that he has skills and experience enable him to get the better of Base Goku level opponents.


We are getting somewhere. I'm seeing that you are avoiding my questions. Buu didnt scratch Goku even though he was landing successsful hits. Can Krillin do the same?

Why would he hold back in Blue but go all out against Krillin in black?

The only reason you KNOW Beerus is holding back is due to the things he has achieved whereas we know Goku can't achieve the same. Same can be said here. Black hair Goku achieved things that we know Krillin can't achieve. I asked you a question earlier...Goku withstood an all out attack from Beerus while in black hair. Can Krillin survive the same thing?

Get the better of base Goku? Naah, Goku was holding back to test Krillin strength. Krillin hit him with the destructo disk and it didn't even scratch him. Goku went Super Saiyan and didn't even use it. Goku went Blue and just stood there. His intentions was obvious.

Krillin is NOTHING to base Goku and that's fact based on everything we've seen base Goku do.


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Last edited by carver9 on Aug 27th, 2017 at 05:09 PM

Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 05:04 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
The minute we see Goku telling Gohan this wouldn't happen.



Lol...he said he will be alright. That doesn't mean that he would beat him and as shown during the mind battle, Krillin attacks were getting tanked. He was nothing to him and got off a solar flare that did next to nothing for the outcome. Base first form Frieza>>>>>>>>Fat Buu>Wolf.


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 05:08 PM
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