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SF Malak vs NoVitiate
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA

LFL has stated more powerful quotes only apply to the time of the publication.

Thus, LFL doesn't recognize Kun > Vitiate.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:19 AM

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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:

It's like maybe we shouldn't take quotes from sh!t sources as hard irrefutable fact. Kun has vastly superior scaling/feats and hence I'm inclined to dismiss a source that also seems to consider bastila~dooku.

Regardless it's pure idiocy to try and use this to twist this into Revan>Vitiate when he gets outright demolished in a direct confrontation and the entire plot of SOR revolves on Revan being sh!t to Vitiate.

And yes, if you want to take an az-style, quotes are canon no matter what approach, I'm not really seeing how you can avoid sf malak being>>Kun.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:19 AM

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UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LFL has stated more powerful quotes only apply to the time of the publication.

Have they? Fair enough. Can I get the quote?

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:19 AM

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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Have they? Fair enough. Can I get the quote?

Do you mind asking Harrison? He has it.

Who's Kbro talking to again, BTW?

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:20 AM

UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
from sh!t sources

What makes a source shit though? That's the point. Once you start saying "I don't have to take quotes from shit sources."

You can claim any source that says something you don't like is a "shit source."

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"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:20 AM

UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Do you mind asking Harrison? He has it.

Who's Kbro talking to again, BTW?

Sure.

Me I think. Probably the thread in general. The air maybe?

__________________
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"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:21 AM

Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What makes a source shit though? That's the point. Once you start saying "I don't have to take quotes from shit sources."

You can claim any source that says something you don't like is a "shit source."

Because it has repeatedly suggested stuff that doesn't make much sense holistically or in terms of feats.

And yes, you can claim the stupidity of or dispute any quote you find to be nonsensical, assuming you've got good reason to do so.

I dispute the quote on the basis of Kun having much greater feats and scaling than Malak does.

Quotes aren't indisputable, they can be argued against, assuming you have an argument against them.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:31 AM

Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

Me I think. Probably the thread in general. The air maybe?

You realize this is a public forum, not a hangout or pm? You can state a general stance here if you want. It doesn't have to be addressed to one person specifically, though this is mostly aimed at you.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:31 AM

Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA

tl;dr: I don't like it, so I'm going to ignore it!

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:32 AM

Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
tl;dr: I don't like it, so I'm going to ignore it!

that's an oversimplification, but given that you've been using that approach much longer than I have, I'm not sure what your complaint is.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:33 AM

Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA

Your current stance, if taken at face value, and my current stance are not remotely similiar.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:36 AM

Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your current stance, if taken at face value, and my current stance are not remotely similiar.

That quotes aren't hard canon and can be disputed?
That's literally the only viable basis for most tor vs pt arguments you engage in.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:41 AM

Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA

You're not being honest what your stance is: a quote is objective unless subjectively disputable, therefore making it non-canonical.

So, in other words, if a quote says something you like, it's absolute. Otherwise, if you don't like it, then it's non-canon rubbish.

"What you don't like" meaning if you personally don't think the quote is supported by your own interpretation of events.

That is distinctively different than all quotes are subjective evidence and, depending on the situation, hold varying levels of authority.

The latter viewpoint, of course, is mine. I'm not saying you have to have that, but let's be honest here on what you believe versus what I believe.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:45 AM

Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You're not being honest what your stance is: a quote is objective unless subjectively disputable, therefore making it non-canonical.

It's amusing to see you try and tell me what my own stance is, but that isn't my stance.

All quotes are disputable and can be disputed. However some quotes can be defended aside from the quote itself better than other quotes can be. Determining which quotes are more solid than others comes down to debating. If a quote can be well supported via holistics, feats, and/or scaling, or if it's oe of many that contributes to a common theme across the mythos(sids>valk for example), I'm going to be more likely to accept thana quote which makes little sense in regard to feats, scaling, or holistic sense(malak>kun or bastilla~dooku for example). The source also matters. I'm going to give a novel blurb, codex entry, or WOTC quote less weight than say a statement from Lucas himself. But like I said, that's subjective, and it comes down to debating to determine which evidence we consider stronger.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:58 AM

Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA

What you just said was what I said, but with a lot of fluff around it to make your stance seem more acceptable than my direct version.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 02:58 AM

Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What you just said was what I said, but with a lot of fluff around it to make your stance seem more acceptable than my direct version.

Yea this:

quote:
That is distinctively different than all quotes are subjective evidence and, depending on the situation, hold varying levels of authority.

is basically the same as this:

quote:
All quotes are disputable and can be disputed. However some quotes can be defended aside from the quote itself better than other quotes can be.

We have the same approach, you're just sour I'm willing to apply your approach on a quote you like.

You can stop crying wolf now. sad

Last edited by Rockydonovang on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 03:07 AM

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Sep 2nd, 2017 03:03 AM

Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: You're not being honest with yourself.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 03:15 AM

UCanShootMyNova
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Because it has repeatedly suggested stuff that doesn't make much sense holistically or in terms of feats.

And yes, you can claim the stupidity of or dispute any quote you find to be nonsensical, assuming you've got good reason to do so.

I dispute the quote on the basis of Kun having much greater feats and scaling than Malak does.

Quotes aren't indisputable, they can be argued against, assuming you have an argument against them.

I understand your line of thinking but I can't agree with it since there's no objective place where we draw the line. It makes debating impossible or rather TOO possible. No one would ever reach a consensus due to inherent biases.

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"I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.

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Sep 2nd, 2017 03:20 AM

Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I understand your line of thinking but I can't agree with it since there's no objective place where we draw the line. It makes debating impossible or rather TOO possible. No one would ever reach a consensus due to inherent biases.

A fair qualm. Though you have to draw the line somewhere, or you are going to start getting sh!t like
Kenobi~Dooku in force power, TPM Maul>>Dooku, Fisto>TPM Maul ect which, technically speaking, can all be defended depending on how far you're willing to stretch to defend quotes regarding them

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Sep 2nd, 2017 03:24 AM