With Darth Nihilus, there's two different viewpoints you can have, and IMO they are both well supported.
> The classical, which Mother holds, is that he's an impossibly powerful dark-side creature. This is primarily based on feats and in-universe statements around KotOR2 and minor articles.
> The new, which Sasukedc, Skillz, and I hold, is that he's simply a powerful Sith Lord. This comes from, ironically, other in-universe statements around KotOR2, but also statements from Chris Avellone, the Revan novel, and SWTOR's portrayal of him.
The two aren't really reconcilable. I disagree with Mother that SWTOR conveys Darth Nihilus is a Sith remotely comparable to Vitiate when they introduced his holocron. And I imagine Mother would agree that, if we would ask Avellone who would win between (Darth) Revan and Darth Nihilus, he would say Revan. Or Drew, although he already made his rather clear, attempted reconciliations aside. Or probably any author besides Abel Peña, and I'm not sure that counts for much. On the flip side, Mother can just as easily say, well, we have Darth Nihilus lifting Star Destroyers from gravity wells, which is also true, so it's meh.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
'His power' is basically Traya's way of describing his hunger, since the former grows alongside the latter. Same goes for Visas, IIRC.
Not a 'mindless' slave by any means, but he is a slave nonetheless to his hunger. Though I don't see how that could in any way be a detriment to his combative performance when facing literally anyone other than Surik, lol.
She describes Nihilus in much the same way, and I daresay speaks more highly of his power than she does Revan's (growing so powerful he only sees planets/stars, being capable of ending the galaxy given time, etc.) Also, the 'heart of the Force' comparison doesn't really work because, as Sel said, the two are portrayed in very different lights: one, Nihilus is seen as the death of the Force; while Revan, the other, is seen as the heart.
And we're still ignoring the fact that this is all her opinion on the hierarchy of characters light-years out of her league in terms of power, so I don't know why you're using this to justify Nihilus being below Vader.
Again, never once is there any implication in KotOR II of Nihilus being below Revan, other then Kreia saying that Revan was the best of her students - an inherently flawed comparison in and of itself.
Yes we do. It's heavily implied by Surik and confirmed by other sources that Nihilus' Force abilities were exhausted by the time he fought Surik (due to the failed Drain and him holding the Ravager together.) Hell, if you look at the actual fight itself, the only Force powers he actually used in the fight with Surik were Dark Heal and Force Push - one being used repeatedly to keep himself alive in the second half of the fight (when Visas was ****ing with his mind) and the other only being used once, in the middle of the fight.
For the entirety of the first half and most of the second half, he was purely relying on his lightsaber to defend himself.
You'd have a point here if he was at full strength when he was doing it. The guy was literally being 'consumed' by his own hunger, was holding together his ship and being mind****ed by Visas, yet all the while managed to give the trio an excellent fight in a (mostly) lightsaber contest. If this is what he was doing while in a state similar to the one Plagueis was in when fighting the Maladians, he's logically going to be able to perform a lot better at full strength.
Anyway, point is, he isn't nearly as weak a duelist as most make him out to be on these boards.
Which he can easily oneshot Vader with yeah. Though, as we saw in his fight with Sion, if he's going for the oneshot then it's going to display his entire arsenal of Force powers, the main three being Drain, TK and Lightning, of course.
Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites
Skillz's opener lost him this debate. All he did was spam feats. He utterly failed to tie any of them to Wyyrlok in any way; he didn't explain how Arcann's résumé would enable him to overcome his adversary. His post was a glorified respect thread, not an argument.
Granted, ILS didn't corroborate his claims about Wyyrlok mindraping either, so that means they're technically even. However, one must note ILS was able to match Skillz's wall of text with merely two sentences. This tells me he is in another league altogether; an entity from a higher dimension.
That means he is at least 4D, and as such is able to traverse time. With that in mind, I do not think it is unfair to proclaim him the winner here. Although he hasn't posted anything that would've gained him an advantage yet, he is not tied to the present and neither are his arguments per his status as a 4D being. He has already proved himself infinitely more than a match for Skillz; if he went all out, he'd annihilate him.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
I actually agree with Sel.
But no, SWTOR doesn't undermine Nihilus whatsoever. It is in fact stated that the Sith Empire has been searching for his techniques with significant effort. Voidhound circumventing this is also likewise stated to have essentially saved the Jedi Order. In the dark side alternative to this, the Sith you aid in the retrieval of Nihilus' holocron goes from a lackey Lord to a Darth on the Dark Council with barely any time at all.
Furthermore, the descriptions given to his cartel market gear are all flush with hype regarding his power too.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.