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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Valkorion vs Darth Sidious


Valkorion vs Darth Sidious
Started by: ILS

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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
It's literal. Jerec, literally gained knowledge into crap nobody in the galaxy had a clue about.


No, it isn't. Had Jerec truly been all-knowing, he would have known he wasn't untouchable, a factually incorrect notion, and he wouldn't have let Katarn sever his connection to the Force while he literally did nothing to defend himself.


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Old Post Sep 7th, 2017 01:25 PM
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The_Tempest
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States


 

After years of witnessing cringeworthy interactions with AP, I think we can safely conclude she's a pathological liar.

Old Post Sep 7th, 2017 01:45 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
No, it isn't. Had Jerec truly been all-knowing, he would have known he wasn't untouchable, a factually incorrect notion, and he wouldn't have let Katarn sever his connection to the Force while he literally did nothing to defend himself.

Fair enough

Old Post Sep 7th, 2017 01:58 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
All of which was retconned. thumb up

WRONG.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And he literally tells you he needs a body to preserve his spirit, literally tells you he only plans to ditch his body to take the Outlander's,

Really?

Voices... Hands... Children... I no longer require those crude vessels. At long last I am truly free. (Tenebrae)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
we're told his immortality isn't really immortality

If you are assuming omnipotence then no being in Star Wars became immortal in true sense of the word.

I see immortality in following ways:-

1. Ability to cheat death and extend life for indefinite period.
3. Omnipotence*

*Omnipotence is an impossibility.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
and requires him to consume planets, and finally, what does this have to do with anything again?

No, he consumed Ziost to replenish his strength. Hunger was a side-effect of his experiment on Medriaas.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Sep 7th, 2017 at 03:21 PM

Old Post Sep 7th, 2017 03:14 PM
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FreshestSlice
Eternal Commander

Registered: May 2014
Location:


 

Dude says he's made you into a vessel worthy of, "Holding and preserving [his] spirit."

His father then goes on to tell you he needs to constantly consume life to keep his immortality, hence Ziost. Stop acting like a block of wood. No one with even only a fundamental understanding of English gets the words immortal and omnipotent mixed up. They don't even sound the same or have even remotely similar definitions. Stop deflecting.

Well I guess you'll have a source for that claim. I mean I know you don't, but I'll give you the chance to find one.


On a side note, I used to think KotET was ****ing retarded, but since it's destroyed almost every Vitishit argument you've ever made, it might actually be the greatest piece of Star Wars media to ever grace my computer.

Old Post Sep 7th, 2017 03:51 PM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
After years of witnessing cringeworthy interactions with AP, I think we can safely conclude she's a pathological liar.


Aw, did I not conform to your personal view poing of everything? I'll be sure not to leave your ass so raging hot next time.


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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.

Old Post Sep 7th, 2017 10:47 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Dude says he's made you into a vessel worthy of, "Holding and preserving [his] spirit."

This is the statement:

"You were an exemplary pawn, one I forged into a vessel of supreme power--worthy of preserving my spirit." (Tenebrae)

The 'preserving' part = [metaphor] in this case.

Tenebrae's spirit had latched onto the Outlander for years and had been a source of great power whenever called upon. Sounds like a plot device instead of being a requirement because events of Shadow of Revan and Rise of the Emperor are part of BioWare canon and acknowledged in later expansions.

We have clearly seen Tenebrae making his presence known in Yavin IV, teleporting from Yavin IV to Ziost and subsequently devastating Ziost in intangible form. This event chain wouldn't be possible if Tenebrae could not retain his presence outside a body and/or could not resist pull of the void.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
His father then goes on to tell you he needs to constantly consume life to keep his immortality, hence Ziost.

His immortality, right? thumb up

Tenebrae also benefits from siphoning energies of his subjects; his growth in power. thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Stop acting like a block of wood. No one with even only a fundamental understanding of English gets the words immortal and omnipotent mixed up. They don't even sound the same or have even remotely similar definitions. Stop deflecting.

Really?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/...ent_being_what/

Tenebrae's ability to prolong his corporeal existence for indefinite period and his ability to cheat corporeal death on top of it, implies immortality.

How would you describe him otherwise?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well I guess you'll have a source for that claim. I mean I know you don't, but I'll give you the chance to find one.

Tenebrae's hunger is implied to be a by-product of his immortality condition which in turn is the outcome of his NATHEMA experiment, and his course-of-action was to siphon the energy of his subjects in order to satiate it.

You can also look at the case of Darth Nihilus; his hunger was a by-product of his Wound condition and his course-of-action was to siphon the energy of his subjects in order to satiate it.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
On a side note, I used to think KotET was ****ing retarded, but since it's destroyed almost every Vitishit argument you've ever made, it might actually be the greatest piece of Star Wars media to ever grace my computer.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Shadow of Revan and Rise of the Emperor are part of the lore. See above.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Sep 8th, 2017 at 02:23 PM

Old Post Sep 8th, 2017 02:18 PM
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ILS
Restricted

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban

Account Restricted


 

Bump.


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2018 11:31 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: The Eternal Throne


 

1. Valkorion
2. Stalemate


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”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”

Old Post Feb 4th, 2018 11:35 PM
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ILS
Restricted

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Valkorion
2. Stalemate
Based on?


__________________

“The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.

Old Post Feb 4th, 2018 11:36 PM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Valkorion
2. Stalemate


What a fossil lol


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2018 11:40 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: The Eternal Throne


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
What a fossil lol


Good one.

@ILS: I’ll respond after the Super Bowl.


__________________

”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”

Old Post Feb 4th, 2018 11:44 PM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

Valk has better feats, he wins.


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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 12:11 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: The Eternal Throne


 

On my phone: Az, Ellimist, or ILS: could one of you paraphrase the strongest arguments as to why ROTS Sidious is above Valkorion? Might as well turn this into the meat and potatoes.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 01:12 AM
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Azronger
Azronger Reborn

Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
On my phone: Az, Ellimist, or ILS: could one of you paraphrase the strongest arguments as to why ROTS Sidious is above Valkorion? Might as well turn this into the meat and potatoes.


To avoid turning this into a metadebate, for the sake of the argument I'll now agree that Valkorion isn't a Sith nor a full darksider.

He still loses to this iteration of Sheev, though. The Shadow has the following going for him:

  • Being only mere months away from his Byss feat, which is by all accounts superior to Vitiate's stunt on Ziost (can elaborate later)
  • Being powerful enough in the Force to turn the entire galaxy into a dark side nexus, or rather, being that galaxy-wide dark side nexus himself, as contrasted with Vitiate only managing to tilt half the galaxy to the dark side over the course of 300 years (if we're being generous to him)
  • (arguably) TP'ing the entire Jedi Order which resulted in the clouding their Force sight
  • Scaling from Plagueis, who can outwill the Force and TP the entire galaxy (quadrillions of beings)
  • Being [somewhat] relativistic to RotJ Sheev, who can dominate the Imperial Military (tens of trillions of beings)
  • Having Force lightning that can bend lightsaber blades, making it more potent than lightsaber plasma and thus able to penetrate Valk's defences (who has not shown anything beyond blocking standard lightsaber strikes)
  • Being able to casually protect himself from attacks more intense than lightsaber plasma, meaning any of Valk's attacks will be utterly impotent (Valk has not shown offensive output beyond or even on the level of a lightsaber blade)
  • Being fast enough to speedblitz Yoda with his lightning, meaning he'd be able to blitz the infinitely inferior combatant in Valk as well and one-shot him (a Valk with no active defences has been proven vulnerable to blaster bolts)
  • Being a far more tactically aware and combatively capable individual in general


All in all, Valk's pretty thoroughly outclassed here.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 02:20 AM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

"The lack of understanding the context, in your statements, disturbs me."
-Freedon Nadd


__________________
RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 08:09 AM
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Stigma
Herald of the Judgement

Registered: Jul 2013
Location: Poland


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
To avoid turning this into a metadebate, for the sake of the argument I'll now agree that Valkorion isn't a Sith nor a full darksider.

He still loses to this iteration of Sheev, though. The Shadow has the following going for him:

  • Being only mere months away from his Byss feat, which is by all accounts superior to Vitiate's stunt on Ziost (can elaborate later)
  • Being powerful enough in the Force to turn the entire galaxy into a dark side nexus, or rather, being that galaxy-wide dark side nexus himself, as contrasted with Vitiate only managing to tilt half the galaxy to the dark side over the course of 300 years (if we're being generous to him)
  • (arguably) TP'ing the entire Jedi Order which resulted in the clouding their Force sight
  • Scaling from Plagueis, who can outwill the Force and TP the entire galaxy (quadrillions of beings)
  • Being [somewhat] relativistic to RotJ Sheev, who can dominate the Imperial Military (tens of trillions of beings)
  • Having Force lightning that can bend lightsaber blades, making it more potent than lightsaber plasma and thus able to penetrate Valk's defences (who has not shown anything beyond blocking standard lightsaber strikes)
  • Being able to casually protect himself from attacks more intense than lightsaber plasma, meaning any of Valk's attacks will be utterly impotent (Valk has not shown offensive output beyond or even on the level of a lightsaber blade)
  • Being fast enough to speedblitz Yoda with his lightning, meaning he'd be able to blitz the infinitely inferior combatant in Valk as well and one-shot him (a Valk with no active defences has been proven vulnerable to blaster bolts)
  • Being a far more tactically aware and combatively capable individual in general


All in all, Valk's pretty thoroughly outclassed here.

Good points.


BTW How fast is Valkorion in combat?

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 09:09 AM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

How are those good points when they can be easily countered?


__________________
RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 09:16 AM
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ILS
Restricted

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban

Account Restricted


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
How are those good points when they can be easily countered?
Because you're a retard is the answer.


__________________

“The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 09:17 AM
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Stigma
Herald of the Judgement

Registered: Jul 2013
Location: Poland


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
How are those good points when they can be easily countered?

You can do it?

Old Post Feb 5th, 2018 09:17 AM
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