quote: (post)

Originally posted by Azronger
To avoid turning this into a metadebate, for the sake of the argument I'll now agree that Valkorion isn't a Sith nor a full darksider.

He still loses to this iteration of Sheev, though. The Shadow has the following going for him:

• Being only mere months away from his Byss feat, which is by all accounts superior to Vitiate's stunt on Ziost (can elaborate later)
  
• Being powerful enough in the Force to turn the entire galaxy into a dark side nexus, or rather, being that galaxy-wide dark side nexus himself, as contrasted with Vitiate only managing to tilt half the galaxy to the dark side over the course of 300 years (if we're being generous to him)
  
• (arguably) TP'ing the entire Jedi Order which resulted in the clouding their Force sight
  
• Scaling from Plagueis, who can outwill the Force and TP the entire galaxy (quadrillions of beings)
  
• Being [somewhat] relativistic to RotJ Sheev, who can dominate the Imperial Military (tens of trillions of beings)
  
• Having Force lightning that can bend lightsaber blades, making it more potent than lightsaber plasma and thus able to penetrate Valk's defences (who has not shown anything beyond blocking standard lightsaber strikes)
  
• Being able to casually protect himself from attacks more intense than lightsaber plasma, meaning any of Valk's attacks will be utterly impotent (Valk has not shown offensive output beyond or even on the level of a lightsaber blade)
  
• Being fast enough to speedblitz Yoda with his lightning, meaning he'd be able to blitz the infinitely inferior combatant in Valk as well and one-shot him (a Valk with no active defences has been proven vulnerable to blaster bolts)
  
• Being a far more tactically aware and combatively capable individual in general
  

All in all, Valk's pretty thoroughly outclassed here.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Azronger
(a Valk with no active defences has been proven vulnerable to blaster bolts)

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Hm? Just one thing, but why is this a slight against him? Wouldn't this apply to just about anyone who isn't ready?

quote: (post)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The point wasn't to compare Sidious and Valkorion's durability, but rather to demonstrate that Valkorion would be vulnerable to Palpatine's blitz.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lusankya is also only a few years at most after RotS.

Basically by RotS Sidious soundly beats Valkorion in:

- Accolades
- Powerscaling
- Cosmic power
- Telekinesis
- Force lightning
- Speed
- Close quarters
- General combat ability

The only areas he doesn't have a direct superiority in are combat sorcery and large-scale destructive feats, but the former we can infer from evidence and powerscaling while the latter isn't really an edge for Valkorion since his one demonstration of it is under convenient nexus/ritual-y circumstances.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Azronger
What combat sorcery feats does Valk have that haven't been conducted under nebulous circumstances? Also, I struggle to see how he has an edge in "large-scale and destructive feats" when he's always required rituals to pull them off, as you said. Sheev at this point can create Force Storms to devastate entire fleets, and even though admittedly he can't control them at this point, it's still a better feat of pure destructive capabily than anything Valkorion has.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah all of Valkorion's alleged advantages are under dubious, amped conditions.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Azronger
So they're not advantages at all.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I said Sidious doesn't have direct superiority in those categories, because by RotS he doesn't use sorcery much nor has he done planet-busting, but we can infer he can do both from powerscaling (people like Ventress using powerful sorcery) and indirect sources (like Palpatine being able to do Force Storms by RotS).

quote:

That day, Tenebrae removed his father's connection to the Force and imprisoned him within a powerful holocron, leaving Dramath alone to wither slowly into madness over an eternity.
- Lord Dramath Codex Entry

quote:

Tenebrae broke Lord Dramath's mind, but not before revealing that he was actually his son.
- Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia

quote:

With Lord Dramath's aid, you've defeated Arcann and Vaylin. Speak to Valkorion.

quote:

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.
- Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia

quote:

It took Tenebrae three more years to gain control of the rest of Nathema. Dramath's firstborn son fled rather than face his formidable half brother, but other powerful Sith sought to seize the empty throne. All fell before the dark prodigy, and with each victory he grew more powerful and more ruthless.
- Star Wars The Old Republic Revan

quote:

Early in his reign, Vitiate invited thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords to his homeworld, then wiped out his would-be challengers in a profane dark side ritual that annihilated all life on the planet. Even the Force could not survive. The void that remained after the ritual brought pain and suffering to any Force-sensitive beings that approached.
- Nathema Codex Entry

quote:

Emperor Vitiate takes command of the Sith Empire, now in shambles following the Great Hyperspace War. He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force.
- Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia

quote:

The pain, energy, and suffering of every living entity on the planet fueled his power.
- Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia

quote:

Driven by his quest for immortality and fueled by energy sapped from his victims, the Emperor lived for centuries, amassing insurmountable power, rebuilding his exiled Empire, and plotting his ascension to ultimate rule.
- Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia

quote:

Widely regarded as one of the greatest Sith sorcerers in the Empire, the enigmatic Lord Fulminiss is a master of the dark side’s most arcane and lethal aspects. The grotesque Harrower assassins are his most famous creation, but legend has it he once summoned a raging storm of pure Force energy that disintegrated a rebellious city of natives in the Imperial-conquered Jabiim system.
- Lord Fulminiss Codex Entry

quote:

"You'd think the Republic would know to stay out of this system after what happened to their people."
- Malavai Quinn, The Old Republic

quote:

"Oh, I've been to many places in my time with the Reclamation Service. Though sometimes, the Sith ask too much I say. Jabiim, Malachor Three. . . I admit that sometimes the acts of destruction we enact, well. It makes me question what we're really serving."
- Talos Drellik, The Old Republic

quote:

"His acts of cruelty and mass extermination are well-known in the Empire. Though few believe them, even fewer know why he's so prized by my Lord Emperor."
- Lord Scourge, The Old Republic

quote:

"Entire cities were no match for me, one Jedi is nothing."
- Lord Fulminiss, The Old Republic

quote:

"Rewards. Power. Sel-Makor offers them to you. Like the one who came before."

"Who are you talking about? Was there someone here before Fulminiss?"

"Decades ago. A Sith. Greater than Fulminiss. Power was given."
- Sel-Makor and the Hero of Tython, The Old Republic

quote:

But to prove such a bold claim to the Dark Council, the Wrath battles Darth Baras in a fierce duel. The Wrath emerges triumphant, striking down the ruined and seething Darth Baras. With vengeance delivered and the Emperor's will satisfied, the Dark Council bows to the unquestionable might of the Emperor's Wrath.
- Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

quote:

"NO! My powers abandon me!"
- Darth Baras, Star Wars The Old Republic

quote:

"My plague has spread farther than you can imagine. Jedi Masters across the galaxy are succumbing to it as I speak. The plague binds these masters to me. Hundreds of them-the heart and soul of your order. Kill me, and you will kill every master I have ever infected. Every one! Shielded or not, they are still bound to me."
- Lord Vivicar, The Old Republic

quote:

"My plague isn’t just a disease. It siphons power from its victims. With the proper rituals, that power can be channeled."
- Lord Vivicar, The Old Republic

quote:

"You've never faced something like this."
- Jaric Kaedan on Syo Bakarn, The Old Republic

quote:

The Sith Emperor seeks to shape all things to his will. His Children, individuals infused with part of his being, have been scattered throughout the Republic, knowingly–or unknowingly–manipulating events to the Emperor’s advantage over the years. Above them all is the First Son of the Emperor, a master strategist placed within the Jedi Council itself. Cloaked in the identity of Master Syo Bakarn, the First Son has been hiding the Children from the Jedi for decades, playing a long game with the Republic. His actions suggest a man possessing remarkable patience, ruthlessness and power.
- First Son Codex Entry

quote:

The only way the plan would work was if she could use the power of Sith sorcery to mask her strength while simultaneously projecting an aura of light-side energy. It was a complicated spell, one she had never tried before. It required a balance of strength and delicacy, and she had practiced it continuously in the weeks leading up to her departure.

The illusion she projected of being an apprentice of the light side had served her well so far, but now she was face-to-face with a Jedi Master. If she made even the slightest mistake, all was lost.
- Darth Bane: Rule of Two

quote:

In a climactic final battle with the galaxy at stake, these two masters of the Force cross sabers.
- The Old Republic Encyclopedia

quote:

"You managed to defeat the First Son's will? Incredible."
- Jaric Kaedan

quote:

"It was like the dark side was screaming at us."
- Jaric Kaedan