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Order each party from best to worst, and what each means
Started by: TethAdamTheRock

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Beniboybling
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Location: United Kingdom

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I mean both are pretty fundamentally retarded and evil.
Damn socialism is now also evil.

I'm beginning to notice a trend.


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2017 03:45 PM
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lazybones
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Gender: Male
Location: -

In regards to the thread, I'm not totally sure how to rank the ideologies. But I think ideologies like Nazism and ideologies under the umbrella of socialism/communism (Stalinism, Leninism etc...) are the most disgusting for their use of mass violence to achieve their goals, and their promotion of either race or class warfare.

Ideologies like anarcho-capitalism and libertarianism are also pretty horrible due to the extreme selfishness that is built into them.

My opinion of conservatives are somewhere between bad to lukewarm. On social issues, I actually agree that a stable family unit is very important, and that abortion should be more of a last resort than a first resort, due to the fetus which is still essentially a human, even if it isn't born yet. Some conservatives go too far on abortion, however, saying that it should be illegal, or so defunded that it becomes impractical for a woman to have one even if she needs it. It should definitely be available, just regulated. I also find myself strongly disagreeing with conservatives on issues like drug prohibition and same sex-marriage. On economic issues, I can sympathise with the wish to have the most efficient state possible, but this is usually easier said than done, and some conservatives can come of as very callous when they are cutting programs that actually help people and provide a net benefit to society. The claim by some conservatives that charity can always step in for a welfare state is also a fantasy.

All in all, I'd say I'm probably closest to social democracy generally practised in Western Europe. I believe that capitalism is the most efficient economic system we have, but it needs to be supported by social programs, and some services (healthcare,railways, energy etc...) should be totally if not at least partially under public control and/or regulation. However, I find myself out of step with the usual centre-left social democrat on the odd social issue, on foreign policy, on free trade to a certain extent, and currently on issues like Brexit. I also think pragmatism should come above ideology on issues like taxation. In my opinion, the rich should definitely pay more than the poor, and the amount of loopholes are obscene, but it is important not to go too far and start taxing too high. If you do that, you may actually reduce revenues that are needed for the social programs. Although extreme conservatives and libertarians promising magic revenue by cutting taxes massively are much worse, to be fair.

So yeah, I find myself having the most in common with ideologies closer to the centre, that are more pragmatic and less ideologically driven, than those on the extremes or those that are solidly left or right with little room to compromise.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2017 03:58 PM
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Emperordmb
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Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
The problem with Communism and Socialism at the extreme is people or pigs as Animal Farm shows clearly. If you took away the greed equation, the theory is sound...

Except that "the greed equation" is an inherent part of human nature, and putting governmental authority in charge of all economics incites corruption to a ridiculous degree.

Also, marxism is inherently anti-meritocratic as it only rewards people for work, not for the quality of their work, so it wouldn't give people an incentive to put more effort into their work, as opposed to capitalism where success is rewarded with money.

And lastly, marxism has absolutely no respect for property rights, which is completely immoral. I'm all for a certain extent of welfare as a safety net, but promoting blatant equality of outcome despite the fact that different people's merits in the workforce are not equal is theft. If somebody contributes more to the economy, they deserve to prosper more for their labor.

So marxism is something that inevitably leads to government corruption, it removes the motivation for economic enterprise, and even if it would hypothetically work if you ignored human nature it would still be deeply immoral.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Yeah, why not give it another go sometime, America is doing that for Fascism now!

That's not an excuse. The wars and genocides of the 20th century should have settled the debate between individualism and collectivism, and shown that collectivist philosophies like marxism, fascism, nazism, racial collectivism, etc lead to nothing but the violation of human rights and human suffering. The fact that people in western nations are still waving around either the swastika or the hammer and sickle is truly disgusting, and fascism is not any more an excuse for marxism than marxism is for fascism. They're both terrible, horrid ideologies that shouldn't have survived as living ideologies past the twentieth century.

You wanna see if marxism works? Sorry we already did that and we have tens of millions of corpses to prove that it doesn't, and that's plenty enough for me, and if it's not enough for you you need to do some serious reevaluation of your historical knowledge or moral character.


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2017 04:11 PM
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ArtificialGlory
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The various forms of communism/hardline socialism and fascism/Nazism are the left and right hands of oppression so severe that most people in the West can only comprehend it on an academic level. Let's leave them in the graveyard of history, where they belong.


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2017 05:41 PM
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