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Nekron in the Cancerverse
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zopzop
Wicked Queen

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Location: The Labyrinth

quote: (post)
Originally posted by "Id"
But you read the comic and so does Zop. It seems that there is so much focus on the consequence (aka the obliteration of the Cancerverse) from Death taking out Mar-Vell, that you overlooked the context of how that scene followed through.

Key Plot Points for the sake of Context:

1) At some point Mar-Vell becomes the Champion of life. The Cancerverse came about due to Mar-Vell killing of the Champion of Death in his reality through a ritual. What the ritual does is killing the Champion also Kills Its God. To which Death is eliminated its universe becomes corrupted because checks and balances has been thrown out the window. BAM with have Corrupted Mar-Vell & Cancerverse.

2) A greater part of the plot is focused on Mar-Vell following its masters wishes to search for the Champion of Death in Verse 616 to bring about the same fate has his own reality.

3) The Heros and Thanos learn of all this. And Thanos schemes a plot to allow himself to get captured so that he can be brought to the ritual. Unknowing to Mar-Vell, Death is with/Attached to Thanos. With Death taking Mar-Vell (its champion of Life) in the ritual, we witness the Obliteration of the Cancerverse along with its Masters.

Key plot for context being, Killing its Champion in the ritual to deliver such obliteration. Nekron can not do the following with doing the former.

Cool story. Except Nekron isn't 'just' a Death abstract. What works against her doesn't against him. Nekron doesn't have a 'champion' that you can kill to destroy him. Nekron's avatar, Black Hand, is needed so he can enter the physical universe from his own realm. You can't 'kill' Black Hand. The Life Entity had to raise him and sever his link to Nekron to merely BANISH Nekron back to his kingdom. Nekron was actually owning the Life Entity and the only way he lost (via BFR) was by severing his link to Black Hand.

The Cancerverse gets sodomized by Nekron's scythe.


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 08:17 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by zopzop
Cool story. Except Nekron isn't 'just' a Death abstract. What works against her doesn't against him. Nekron doesn't have a 'champion' that you can kill to destroy him. Nekron's avatar, Black Hand, is needed so he can enter the physical universe from his own realm. You can't 'kill' Black Hand. The Life Entity had to raise him and sever his link to Nekron to merely BANISH Nekron back to his kingdom. Nekron was actually owning the Life Entity and the only way he lost (via BFR) was by severing his link to Black Hand.

The Cancerverse gets sodomized by Nekron's scythe.
Based on ?


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 08:22 PM
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"Id"
The Man of Tomorrow

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by zopzop
Cool story. Except Nekron isn't 'just' a Death abstract. What works against her doesn't against him. Nekron doesn't have a 'champion' that you can kill to destroy him. Nekron's avatar, Black Hand, is needed so he can enter the physical universe from his own realm. You can't 'kill' Black Hand. The Life Entity had to raise him and sever his link to Nekron to merely BANISH Nekron back to his kingdom. Nekron was actually owning the Life Entity and the only way he lost (via BFR) was by severing his link to Black Hand.

The Cancerverse gets sodomized by Nekron's scythe.


If this is the focus of your response. Than you completely missed my point.


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 08:26 PM
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zopzop
Wicked Queen

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on ?

Based on :
a) The fact that killing Black Hand doesn't kill Nekron. In fact, you can't 'kill' Black Hand. They had to RAISE him to sever his link to Nekron which resulted in Nekron being BFRed not KILLED.
b) Nekron isn't just a Death abstract. He's also sentient VOID and Darkness (I provided the VOID scan earlier, here are the Darkness scans) :
(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by "Id"
If this is the focus of your response. Than you completely missed my point.

I get your point, you're not getting mine. The Cancerverse cannot "force" Nekron out of the physical universe the way they did Marvel Death.


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 08:29 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by zopzop
Based on :
a) The fact that killing Black Hand doesn't kill Nekron. In fact, you can't 'kill' Black Hand. They had to RAISE him to sever his link to Nekron which resulted in Nekron being BFRed not KILLED.
b) Nekron isn't just a Death abstract. He's also sentient VOID and Darkness (I provided the VOID scan earlier, here are the Darkness scans) :



I get your point, you're not getting mine. The Cancerverse cannot "force" Nekron out of the physical universe the way they did Marvel Death.
Who said anything about being killed. The whole point of the cancerverse is to extend life and elimate death so it's definitely within that universes power to sever the connection to Black Hand. Just as Black Hand is the lynchpin to Nekron so also is Mar-vell the lynchpin to the cancerverse.

There are worse things than death can bring which is a sweet release. Nekron gets buried. There's a reason Celestials, Galactus, etc. couldn't just plow through an entire universe of cancerverse.


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 09:42 PM
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zopzop
Wicked Queen

Gender: Unspecified
Location: The Labyrinth

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Who said anything about being killed. The whole point of the cancerverse is to extend life and elimate death

See the problem here? Black Hand is already DEAD. The Life Entity didn't 'extend his life' it RAISED him from the DEAD. Show me an example of the Cancerverse Gods doing this. They didn't even raise Mar-vell from the dead, they healed him BEFORE he died (which is what kickstarted the whole mess in the Cancerverse).

The Cancerverse is phucked my friend. Accept this.


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 09:54 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Gender: Male
Location: Ohio

quote: (post)
Originally posted by zopzop
See the problem here? Black Hand is already DEAD. The Life Entity didn't 'extend his life' it RAISED him from the DEAD. Show me an example of the Cancerverse Gods doing this. They didn't even raise Mar-vell from the dead, they healed him BEFORE he died (which is what kickstarted the whole mess in the Cancerverse).

The Cancerverse is phucked my friend. Accept this.
They eliminated death from their universe showing they had the power to do so. Nekron gets eliminated. Nah, the cancerverse would overwhelm him. Nekron didn't really do anything impressive and lost control over his powerful creations. Nekron gets decimated.


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 10:01 PM
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zopzop
Wicked Queen

Gender: Unspecified
Location: The Labyrinth

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
They eliminated death from their universe showing they had the power to do so. Nekron gets eliminated. Nah, the cancerverse would overwhelm him. Nekron didn't really do anything impressive and lost control over his powerful creations. Nekron gets decimated.

How are they going to eliminate him? The Life Entity itself couldn't kill him only BFR him via resurrecting Black Hand.


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 10:12 PM
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quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by zopzop
How are they going to eliminate him? The Life Entity itself couldn't kill him only BFR him via resurrecting Black Hand.
Just because the Life Entity couldn't what makes you think the cancerverse can't ? Haven't they already eliminated death before.


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 10:14 PM
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Zack M
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laughing out loud


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 10:17 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
laughing out loud
?


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 10:19 PM
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Galan007
As You Wish...

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by "Id"
But you read the comic and so does Zop. It seems that there is so much focus on the consequence (aka the obliteration of the Cancerverse) from Death taking out Mar-Vell, that you overlooked the context of how that scene followed through.

Key Plot Points for the sake of Context:

1) At some point Mar-Vell becomes the Champion of life. The Cancerverse came about due to Mar-Vell killing of the Champion of Death in his reality through a ritual. What the ritual does is killing the Champion also Kills Its God. To which Death is eliminated its universe becomes corrupted because checks and balances has been thrown out the window. BAM with have Corrupted Mar-Vell & Cancerverse.

2) A greater part of the plot is focused on Mar-Vell following its masters wishes to search for the Champion of Death in Verse 616 to bring about the same fate has his own reality.

3) The Heros and Thanos learn of all this. And Thanos schemes a plot to allow himself to get captured so that he can be brought to the ritual. Unknowing to Mar-Vell, Death is with/Attached to Thanos. With Death taking Mar-Vell (its champion of Life) in the ritual, we witness the Obliteration of the Cancerverse along with its Masters.

Key plot for context being, Killing its Champion in the ritual to deliver such obliteration. Nekron can not do the following with doing the former.
Eh, what? blink

I said the Cancerverse's populace was obliterated "once death was reintroduced into that actuality" -- and death was 'reintroduced' by way of Marv. I didn't think I would need to explicitly mention that in writing, given that the scans I posted blatantly depict as much(that's kind of why I posted them.)


But like I said, Nekron would undoubtedly be able to duplicate Death's showing. After all, he can peer into the very essence of a character's being and see what makes them special/unique/killable:
https://i.imgur.com/wiAzm6G.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oPXb2jG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BOxzZZp.jpg

...So it would be relatively simple for him to discern the fact that Marv is the linchpin to the Cancerverse, just like he discerned that Volthoom is a nexus for the emotional energies. thumb up


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Last edited by Galan007 on Sep 21st, 2017 at 11:05 PM

Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 11:01 PM
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quanchi112
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laughing out loud


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Old Post Sep 21st, 2017 11:08 PM
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Zack M
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by zopzop
See the problem here? Black Hand is already DEAD. The Life Entity didn't 'extend his life' it RAISED him from the DEAD. Show me an example of the Cancerverse Gods doing this. They didn't even raise Mar-vell from the dead, they healed him BEFORE he died (which is what kickstarted the whole mess in the Cancerverse).

The Cancerverse is phucked my friend. Accept this.


True that.


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Old Post Sep 22nd, 2017 04:17 AM
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iceman24567
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Nekron pimps the cancerverse out to his homies


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Old Post Sep 22nd, 2017 04:56 AM
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"Id"
The Man of Tomorrow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Diablo Corps

Just adding this original poster question as a place holder/reminder.
Would Nekron become impotent in the Cancerverse, or would he be able to reverse it's effects, making it a stable reality? In essence, could he replace Death by filling in for the role on a permanent basis? Or would he be destroyed?
quote: (post)
Originally posted by zopzop

I get your point, you're not getting mine. The Cancerverse cannot "force" Nekron out of the physical universe the way they did Marvel Death.

I am not here to take sides.
Actually they could kill Nekron. Provided Lord Mar-Vell had Nekron champion Blackhand and sacrificed him in the Ritual (Necropsy).
If the Ritual (Necropsy) is performed on Blackhand, it will kill Nekron due to the rituals power. We are talking about a ritual which is powered by being who per Surfers Words “Overthrow the fundamental laws of all possible universes”. That is the ultimate reason why Death is killed to death in the first place.
(please log in to view the image)


Anyhow it’s a moot point. In this topic only Nekron is in play, Blackhand is not present for this battle. Which farther complicates Galans post.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Eh, what? blink

I said the Cancerverse's populace was obliterated "once death was reintroduced into that actuality" -- and death was 'reintroduced' by way of Marv. I didn't think I would need to explicitly mention that in writing, given that the scans I posted blatantly depict as much(that's kind of why I posted them.)


But like I said, Nekron would undoubtedly be able to duplicate Death's showing. After all, he can peer into the very essence of a character's being and see what makes them special/unique/killable:
https://i.imgur.com/wiAzm6G.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oPXb2jG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BOxzZZp.jpg

...So it would be relatively simple for him to discern the fact that Marv is the linchpin to the Cancerverse, just like he discerned that Volthoom is a nexus for the emotional energies. thumb up

Honestly I took your original post. And replied to as so since you where not being specific. Thank you for the calcification. However you are still wrong in thinking Nekron can replicate Deaths action or if Reversing Necropsy is even an option for him when its not. You have a missing component in this battle which is Blackhand.

Reason for this is, the Avatars are the ones that can enact the Necropsy.

(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)


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Last edited by "Id" on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 04:08 PM

Old Post Sep 22nd, 2017 04:02 PM
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abhilegend
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Black Hand was already dead under the control of Nekron. How would you kill someone already dead.

And Thanos's near death only allowed Death to enter cancerverse. In this scenario Nekron is already in Cancerverse.


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Old Post Sep 22nd, 2017 05:19 PM
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Galan007
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Black Hand's only purpose was to act as Nekron's 'tether' to the living world:
https://i.imgur.com/ekEdl74.jpg
*That's why Nekron was finally able to be banished after Black Hand was resurrected by the white light.


...But that's neither here nor there. Per the forum rules, it is assumed that all characters are able to access their full array of powers without issue. So even though Black Hand isn't here to act as a 'tether', it is still assumed that Nekron's powers would be fully functional.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 05:43 PM

Old Post Sep 22nd, 2017 05:38 PM
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"Id"
The Man of Tomorrow

Gender: Unspecified
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Nekron can be in the Cancerverse at full power. Thats not my point.

But we can not assume that he can pull off Reverse Necropsy, simply because Death could and ignore that its a ritual that requires both avatars to enact it.


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Last edited by "Id" on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 06:08 PM

Old Post Sep 22nd, 2017 06:01 PM
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zopzop
Wicked Queen

Gender: Unspecified
Location: The Labyrinth

quote: (post)
Originally posted by "Id"
Nekron can be in the Cancerverse at full power. Thats not my point.

But we can not assume that he can pull off Reverse Necropsy, simply because Death could and ignore that its a ritual that requires both avatars to enact it.

Why are you still going on about the Necropsy? Do you not understand Nekron isn't merely a death abstract? Just because it worked on Marvel Death who has one 'nature' aka death abstract, doesn't mean it will work on Nekron who has multiple natures : death abstract, sentient darkness, sentient void (scans already provided).

People are under the assumption that Nekron is DC's version of Marvel's Death. He's not. He's more like a Death/Oblivion mashup. The Necropsy has one SPECIFIC purpose : BANISH Death.


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Old Post Sep 22nd, 2017 06:37 PM
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