Asgard and related realms are pocket universes. Even as recently as Unworthy Thor entire old Asgard space was stored in a part of a small solar system sized ship.
Traditionally Asgard and related realms were only continental sized chunks of masses. Now who knows.
You are alone in this topic in your own thoughts.
Fans of both companies that take their time to deconstruct what we read can not back you up on your claims.
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where are the scans that show the feats exactly...? acting as a catalyst=/=having universe-destroying power, which is what is required to be a truly universal level being.
see above.
strange way to assume he wasn't. as with so many of your extrapolations, you have too many degrees of separation for your argument to hold any weight at all. if writers wanted to you think a sun dip put superman at universal levels (lol) they'd have shown it when he faced imperiex. you literally expect us to believe that that sun dip granted him power that rivaled or equaled the power he gained when he was bonded with the essence of the universe itself. and you don't see the craziness in that? again, c'mon....
of course you are. you already brought up mangog and i've lost the number of times you bring up the whole ant thing. more to the point: YOUR ENTIRE STANCE IS PREDICATED ON A LOW BALLING OF THE CELESTIAL SHOWING VS THE SKYFATHERS! LOL if we look at odin alone's best feats no selling him is very solid. factor in 2 other high skyfathers attacked with him, and add in the fact that the destroyer, granted power by all skyfathers, couldn't do anything against arishem and there is no way to dismiss the showing UNLESS you low ball it. lol
that i DO have an issue with what you're saying should tell you just how hair-brained it is. it has nothing to do with superman and his potential. bonded with kismet he became part of a universal power. sun-dipped? not even close imo. pushing against some power=/=being a universal power no matter how much you want to conflate the 2. a 'true' universal power has power over the universe, or a fundamental force of the universe. monarch doesn't have that. seriously, put monarch against truly universal level beings. pretty sure it would end like this one, with you on your own. not that that is a real indicator around here of right and wrong, but you have a noticeable lack of support from people who generally lean in your direction. that speaks volumes. /shrug
you have ALREADY labelled the skyfathers showing vs arishem as PIS, what are you talking about? then when someone brings up a good feat for a skyfather to show how great that showing was, you lowball skyfathers. and if that's not bad enough you start talking about/low balling celestials based on later showings who have nothing to do with this thread. then, when someone brings up GOOD feats from later showings, you low ball THOSE! it's so ingrained in you it's become second nature. you don't even realize you're doing it. it's like it's become reflex. dude, i know you usually know your sh!t. this time i think you're dead wrong in almost all ways. i admire your willingness to take on 6 at once lol so i'll make your job easier and bow out since you have literally no chance of changing my mind anyway. so carry on. this is a bad hill to die on though....
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Last edited by leonidas on Sep 25th, 2017 at 07:21 PM
Monarch destroyed Earth 51 universe. Monitors had to rebuild it.
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Prime destroyed Earth 15 universe and it was explained in Multiversity.
Uh, what?
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So another "Superman can't be that powerful" ad hominem?
Superman faced and shit stomped Brainiac wielding Imperiex's power who just had to connect Earth and Apokolips to gain absolute omnipotence.
Let me guess, Brainiac with Imperiex power who was getting even more powerful was less powerful than Imperiex?
All of the skyfathers combined attacks were planetary. So were Destroyer's attacks.
You're using Odin's best feats and supplanting them on celestials. That's not how it works.
So again nothing but ad hominem?
B13 with Imperiex's power isn't a universal being? Why couldn't he just stop Superman if he wasn't at that level and just watch helplessly as Superman simply pushed him to to his death?
You're again interchanging versatility with power. Those are not inclusive deals. What Superman lacked in versatility he made it up with his raw power.
No, I didn't. I said it's a low showing for skyfathers.
There is a big difference in both.
I like how you are frothing at the mouth because I dare say planetary feats for skyfathers is a low showing for them.
Wrong. Old Asgard in the Collector's ship is just Asgard proper. There is still Old Asgard space. There's an actual space where these land masses reside. http://oi60.tinypic.com/jhvqr5.jpg
Flashbacks shown in Angela's books. Angel grew up travelling and hunting in different galaxies. Kinda shows the tenth realm had its own working cosmos.
Aaron or rather the artist depicting Heven proper being torn doesn't mean the tenth realm was tiny.
Not sure what ure trying to get at here.
Odin erecting a barrier to hide and keep them from connecting to the rest of the ten(nine) realms doesn't negate the fact that he "tore" it off from the world tree.
How do u think characters are depicted travelling from one universe to the next? Sometimes it's as simple as them stepping a few feet into a portal and then poof, they are in a completely new universe. Just because it was "hidden" doesn't mean it's close by or easily traversed.
Yup. This has ALWAYS been the case too. Mr. Master had a scan from an early 90s Dr. Strange comic where Dr. Strange straight up said Asgard and other 'godly' realms aren't true universes but much smaller pocket dimensions. I can't find the scan and I've been looking for the past hour
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uh, so....nothing on panel. i can't even imagine--no never i can imagine exactly--what you do to people on the opposite side of a debate who show something like that. off panel=/=who cares. how did he destroy though, out of curiosity...? and what about monarch's feat of universal destruction?
being able to push brainiac=/=universal power. not sure what's not computing. if he had all of imperiex's power at his disposal, why not just blast supes with entropy, exactly the way imperiex obliterated doomsday? simple. he couldn't use imperiex's power like imperiex did. ffs, why not just teleport war world away from him if brainiac was so all-powerful??
pushing brainiac=/=beating imperiex OR being a universal power. it just means he was really really strong. can't believe this has to be explained to you.
btw most of those sh!tty photobucket scans are all broken.
lol now THAT's ironic. but cool, if we're sticking to the letter of the text, then arishem's own answering blast was "immeasurably more potent" than all three combined. and the destroyer that faced the celestials? guess what? "virtually all-powerful". and that was BEFORE odin put not only the combined powers of all the skyfathers into the destroyer, but also his own life force AND the totality of the life force of asgard itself.
that should end the discussion, right? wait, you'll accept that the god blasts were "planetary" but that the other terminology was all hyperbole, right? you don't get to pick and choose. and you realize odin created a sword in that book with his own power that if unsheathed by the wrong person was capable of "rending the fabric of infinity" itself.
no, they really aren't. at all. you think a sun dipped superman can beat kismet?? eternity?? geezus, this is the most absurd argument i've ever seen you struggle to make. i'm convinced even YOU don't believe it, but are in too deep and can't back out now....
low for them or extremely high for the celestials, who, in that book, were said to be capable of laying waste a universe? we all know where you'll fall out. in that book, celestials are said to be able to destroy a universe. crystal clear. a random celestial also blocked the disintegration beam without effort--and that beam was ridiculously amped. at normal levels it was said to be able to kill a skyfather.
frothing? if i were pissed you'd know it. this is pointless. monarch gets obliterated by the celestials. imo his blasts would be blocked as easily--more easily--than the destroyer's disintegration beam would be. you can die on this hill alone, but clearly this is pointless. i am content to let everyone read this, and confident you are incapable of convincing anyone at all that a sun dipped superman is anymore universal in power than monarch is.
I don't know, Destroyer is powerful, yes.. It's also clearly waaaay beneath Celestials.
Pretty sure Monarch can at least take AD in base form. I mean, Thor and Hulk at least stagger the thing, while Monarch just stood there and didn't even react to teams that included Superman, Lanterns, Captain Atoms..
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Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
And then Galactus beat a few Celestials, who is a far cry from universal+, at least normally.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
He tried blasting Superman with Imperiex's power. Superman flat out ignored it.
Did you even read the comic? Brainiac's whole plan was to connect apokolips and earth to gain even more power.
You're just using circular logic now.
The same old KMC myth that unless you are versatile you're not actually powerful.
At least I'm posting scans. All you're doing is denying everything.
Yes, virtually all powerful on planetary level. Marvel has ranked even omnipotence, y'know.
Yes, it could cut through space time. Persuader's axe does it everyday.
Flowery language leo, read it very carefully.
In that comic? He was capable of ignoring direct attacks from universal beings and overpowered them. It was an absurdly high feat for him. You're still not grasping how absurd.
Where is all of this stated? Scans please.
This is as hilarious and pointless retort I've seen from you leo. No debate point, just blind devotion to celestials and skyfathers.
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Sep 25th, 2017 05:36 PM
it has nothing to do with superman and his potential. bonded with kismet he became part of a universal power. sun-dipped? not even close imo. pushing against some power=/=being a universal power no matter how much you want to conflate the 2. a 'true' universal power has power over the universe, or a fundamental force of the universe. monarch doesn't have that. seriously, put monarch against truly universal level beings. pretty sure it would end like this one, with you on your own. not that that is a real indicator around here of right and wrong, but you have a noticeable lack of support from people who generally lean in your direction. that speaks volumes. /shrug
