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The Monitor race v.s. the Beyonder race
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
Especially since its the same poster. Sad.


You mean "Specially".

Thanks God Mods arent as stupid as they are.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2017 08:20 PM
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Zack M
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So this is a sock account?


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2017 08:31 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
So this is a sock account?


????


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2017 08:49 PM
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Zack M
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???


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2017 09:41 PM
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Astner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He didn't specifically state that, he gave his opinion on a potential explanation.

No. It was pretty straightforward. The discrepancy in power was due to the exploitation of a weakness or some other dynamic factor.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And as we've seen before, Breevort's word is pretty irrelevant. I don't think it has any place aside from supplementary evidence.

When it comes to shooting down baseless theories, the explanations provided by those who've actively been involved in the writing process should definitely be taken into account.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2017 10:40 PM
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Obsidian1
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Monitors exists far beyond the scope of the Multiverse even dwarfing the realms of gods which dwarfs the infinite Multiverse . Low tier characters like new gods sees the Multiverse as bubbles and casually bust the multiverse by just falling inside it and they have the tech that can sterlize all of existence . They might be even powerful then dream of endless as a unit who has the influence over the Dark multiverse which contains all of DC + infinite dimensional beings as a tiny spec floating inside it . A amped swamp thing and Zatanna has better feats then beyonders as they were capable of restoring the whole creation from scratch . Monitor simply wins due to better tech and being more powerful .

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 06:29 AM
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Genii96
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Outside the beyond realm, I would give the beyonders and monitors a 50/50,not including the primal monitor

In the beyond realm however, i would give the beyonders the edge, even cube beings saw the multiverse as germs in there, and they have only a fraction of the energies of the beyonders

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 09:18 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Genii96
Outside the beyond realm, I would give the beyonders and monitors a 50/50,not including the primal monitor

In the beyond realm however, i would give the beyonders the edge, even cube beings saw the multiverse as germs in there, and they have only a fraction of the energies of the beyonders

Like from realms of Monitors, eh? Or fourth world?


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 11:44 AM
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Galan007
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Yeah, I'm not sure why some people keep bringing up the scale of Beyonders as though it automatically puts them above Monitors..? Remember, the entire DC multiverse/continuum is, literally, microbial in comparison to the Monitors/Nil... There's a reason Monitors refer to the 3rd dimension as the "GERM world", after all(in this case it is a very literal title.)

Hell, the entire 3D multiverse/continuum dwindles into utter insignificance in comparison to the New Gods' dimension:
(please log in to view the image)
https://i.imgur.com/agE3oSh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1h7jePP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uEEwmi0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9rgaEi5.jpg


I only mention this because the Monitors reside in a realm/dimension even higher on the cosmological chart than the New Gods:
https://i.imgur.com/eNkrNq2.jpg

If fact, the scale of Nil(ie. the Monitor realm) is so vast that the entire Limbo dimension was about the size of CA Superman's palm:
https://i.imgur.com/0EjbMBe.jpg

...And as you can see in the map I posted above: Limbo is basically a bridge dimension -- just above the New God realm; just below the Monitor realm. IOW, its size/scale would be > the New Gods'... Yet Superman could have put it inside his phucking pocket from Nil. THAT'S the scale we're talking here(even though I don't expect it to sink in for a few of the key idiots in this thread, but I digress)...



tl;dr
If we're simply talking scale, the Monitors and Beyonders are equal -- the mainstream creations are literally bacteria-esque in comparison to their native realms.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 5th, 2017 at 02:38 PM

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 02:34 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I'm not sure why some people keep bringing up the scale of Beyonders as though it automatically puts them above Monitors..? Remember, the entire DC multiverse/continuum is, literally, microbial in comparison to the Monitors/Nil... There's a reason Monitors refer to the 3rd dimension as the "GERM world", after all(in this case it is a very literal title.)

Hell, the entire 3D multiverse/continuum dwindles into utter insignificance in comparison to the New Gods' dimension:
(please log in to view the image)
https://i.imgur.com/agE3oSh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1h7jePP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uEEwmi0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9rgaEi5.jpg


I only mention this because the Monitors reside in a realm/dimension even higher on the cosmological chart than the New Gods:
https://i.imgur.com/eNkrNq2.jpg



If fact, the scale of Nil(ie. the Monitor realm) is so vast that the entire Limbo dimension was about the size of CA Superman's palm:
https://i.imgur.com/0EjbMBe.jpg

...And as you can see in the map I posted above: Limbo is basically a bridge dimension -- just above the New God realm; just below the Monitor realm. IOW, its size/scale would be > the New Gods'... Yet Superman could have put it inside his phucking pocket from Nil. THAT'S the scale we're talking here(even though I don't expect it to sink in for a few of the key idiots in this thread, but I digress)...



tl;dr
If we're simply talking scale, the Monitors and Beyonders are equal -- the mainstream creations are literally bacteria-esque in comparison to their native realms.


thumb up


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 03:32 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Obsidian1
Monitors exists far beyond the scope of the Multiverse even dwarfing the realms of gods which dwarfs the infinite Multiverse . Low tier characters like new gods sees the Multiverse as bubbles and casually bust the multiverse by just falling inside it and they have the tech that can sterlize all of existence . They might be even powerful then dream of endless as a unit who has the influence over the Dark multiverse which contains all of DC + infinite dimensional beings as a tiny spec floating inside it . A amped swamp thing and Zatanna has better feats then beyonders as they were capable of restoring the whole creation from scratch . Monitor simply wins due to better tech and being more powerful .


This is a complex topic. When we say the Beyonder race we refer to THE ENTIRE RACE. I dont know if the Monitors could take it against ALL of them.

Besides, we still havent really see much from the Beyonders. But from the small peaks we have gotten, they are Vastly powerful.

I give the win to the Beyonders because they Slaughter EVERYTHING like if they were ants.

I dont see why they wouldnt do the samething with the Monitors.


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 03:38 PM
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Mendax
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great info presented on both sides.

The only problem with the Beyonders is that for all their hype and higher end feats they have painfully low, lows...getting owned by the ex nihili, getting owned by starbrand, getting owned by thor and hyperion, the entire race getting killed by the bomb, etc. because of that it's really hard to find a middle ground for them. confused

the monitors have a bit of the same problem, but its definitely not as extreme.


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Last edited by Mendax on Oct 5th, 2017 at 04:53 PM

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 04:51 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mendax
great info presented on both sides.

The only problem with the Beyonders is that for all their hype and higher end feats they have painfully low, lows...getting owned by the ex nihili, getting owned by starbrand, getting owned by thor and hyperion, the entire race getting killed by the bomb, etc. because of that it's really hard to find a middle ground for them. confused

the monitors have a bit of the same problem, but its definitely not as extreme.


As i mentioned before. There is limmited info on the beyonders.

Which makes this thing hard to predict.

We dont know if the 3 Beyonders that killed the Cosmic entites are dead (I personally believe they arent). The Beyonders that Died tp the Owen Bomb were weaker than the ones that Killed the Living Tribunal. So in that aspcet there could be weak Beyonders (Like the ones that faced Multiversal Avangers) and strong Beyonders like the ones which killed the Living Tribunal.

I personally think that the Beyonders win because of their influence on the Marvel Multiverse.

They were basically unstopable (The only reason they were stopped is because they used the Owens as a bomb. But again, they created the Owens, so its like basically they created their own Doom).What would have happened if they wouldnt have created the Owens.

So, when we say "The Beyonder race" we are looking Blindly. Until now we have seen 2 different types of beyonders. The ones faced by MA, and they onesthat killed the Cosmic beings. Who knows if there might still be stronger beings than these in their universe.

We also have The Beyonder, which was omnipotent! Not to mention he was a "baby" in comparisson to Other Beyonders.

So we are talking about a very complex Race.

(please log in to view the image)

They themselves said it. They are Beyond Understanding. (We havent got enough comics to understand how powerful they are).

Perhaps in the Next Ultimates we get to better understand them. After All, Eternity is now Multiversal, so the Multiverse my now explain to us what then Beyond Realm is.


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 05:18 PM
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celeyhyga17
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mendax
great info presented on both sides.

The only problem with the Beyonders is that for all their hype and higher end feats they have painfully low, lows...getting owned by the ex nihili, getting owned by starbrand, getting owned by thor and hyperion, the entire race getting killed by the bomb, etc. because of that it's really hard to find a middle ground for them. confused

the monitors have a bit of the same problem, but its definitely not as extreme.
some monitors were getting pwned by fodder shock troopers with machine guns.


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 05:32 PM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mendax
great info presented on both sides.

The only problem with the Beyonders is that for all their hype and higher end feats they have painfully low, lows...getting owned by the ex nihili, getting owned by starbrand, getting owned by thor and hyperion, the entire race getting killed by the bomb, etc. because of that it's really hard to find a middle ground for them. confused

the monitors have a bit of the same problem, but its definitely not as extreme.


If we use low showings as a metric, the Beyonders stomp.

Tbh I completely forgot about countdown. They were basically shitty versions of Watchers. I'd favour the Beyonders solidly taking everything into account. They have numbers and one Beyonders is infinitely more powerful than one Monitor.


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 07:33 PM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner
No. It was pretty straightforward. The discrepancy in power was due to the exploitation of a weakness or some other dynamic factor.


When it comes to shooting down baseless theories, the explanations provided by those who've actively been involved in the writing process should definitely be taken into account.


No, Breevort suggested an out and didn't take a formal stance. You can choose to take his word or not.

The only one perpetuating baseless theories is you. Show me actual examples from the comics that supports what Breevort said. Breevort wasn't even the editor of that comic so who gives a f*ck what he says? Even if he was it doesn't matter. We take comics first and use the words of creators to support existing possibilities. We don't warp evidence to fit the theories creators suggest. He has a documented history of just saying random shit to shut down annoying fanboys who bug him.


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 07:37 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mendax
great info presented on both sides.

The only problem with the Beyonders is that for all their hype and higher end feats they have painfully low, lows...getting owned by the ex nihili, getting owned by starbrand, getting owned by thor and hyperion, the entire race getting killed by the bomb, etc. because of that it's really hard to find a middle ground for them. confused

the monitors have a bit of the same problem, but its definitely not as extreme.
It's ludicrous to turn this into a debate that focuses on low showings exclusively. That said, I agree that it IS really hard to figure out an 'average' for the Beyonders themselves.

In NA #30, three of them were shown slaughtering the entire cosmic hierarchy -- the only beings to give them any trouble whatsoever were the Celestials(because there were an infinite amount), and LT himself(who represented a *fully* multiversal power, and ultimately gave 3 of them a great fight before falling.) In the next issue Starbrand's detonation kills one outright, the Ex Nihilii warp another into a tree, and Thor+Hype steamroll through dozenS of them.... And that's to say nothing about a blast nigh-infinitely below multiversal wiping out the entire damn race.


I still don't understand the HUGE discrepancy between depicted powerlevels, but whatevs... At least we saw what Doom and Owen could do with the cumulative power of the Beyonder race. /shrug


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Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 5th, 2017 at 10:37 PM

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 10:33 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
It's ludicrous to turn this into a debate that focuses on low showings exclusively. That said, I agree that it IS really hard to figure out an 'average' for the Beyonders themselves.

In NA #30, three of them were shown slaughtering the entire cosmic hierarchy -- the only beings to give them any trouble whatsoever were the Celestials(because there were an infinite amount), and LT himself(who represented a *fully* multiversal power, and ultimately gave 3 of them a great fight before falling.) In the next issue Starbrand's detonation kills one outright, the Ex Nihilii warp another into a tree, and Thor+Hype steamroll through dozenS of them.... And that's to say nothing about a blast nigh-infinitely below multiversal wiping out the entire damn race.


I still don't understand the HUGE discrepancy between depicted powerlevels, but whatevs... At least we saw what Doom and Owen could do with the cumulative power of the Beyonder race. /shrug


thumb up

Complicated topic.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 12:58 AM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If we use low showings as a metric, the Beyonders stomp.

Tbh I completely forgot about countdown. They were basically shitty versions of Watchers. I'd favour the Beyonders solidly taking everything into account. They have numbers and one Beyonders is infinitely more powerful than one Monitor.

laughing out loud

Oh rage.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 04:24 AM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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What did I say that was incorrect? Replying and not saying anything of value is worse than just shutting up.


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2017 03:10 AM
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