KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » The Monitor race v.s. the Beyonder race

The Monitor race v.s. the Beyonder race
Started by: DeadpoolXXX

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (13): « First ... « 6 7 [8] 9 10 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Astner
Fundamental Physicist

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
There is an issue with that though. Such thing has never been said by a comic. It is assumed that the Beyonders are "like kryptonite" to the cosmic entities, but it isn't a fact.

No it's not assumed. It's explicitly explained by the editor of the comic to be the case. And I'd rather trust the explanation of someone who was involved in the writing process over the theories by someone who've not even not read the comic.

By the way, it's more likely that the Beyonders had a weakness for Abyss, Ex Nihilo, and Starbrand's powersóconsidering they were tied to the Superflowórather than the Abstracts being weak to the Beyonders.


__________________

My visit with Vorador only strengthened my resolve. His power uncontested by mortals, he had fallen to another enemy. Decadence has claimed itself many a great warrior.

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 10:35 PM
Astner is currently offline Click here to Send Astner a Private Message Find more posts by Astner Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Josh_Alexander
The Ultimate Judger

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner
No it's not assumed. It's explicitly explained by the editor of the comic to be the case. And I'd rather trust the explanation of someone who was involved in the writing process over the theories by someone who've not even not read the comic.

By the way, it's more likely that the Beyonders had a weakness for Abyss, Ex Nihilo, and Starbrand's powersóconsidering they were tied to the Superflowórather than the Abstracts being weak to the Beyonders.


Ive read the comics, and theyve never said that The beyonders are like Kryptonite to Cosmic beings. Never. So it makes no sence.

They are just more powerful, that is simple.


__________________

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 11:11 PM
Josh_Alexander is currently offline Click here to Send Josh_Alexander a Private Message Find more posts by Josh_Alexander Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Josh_Alexander
The Ultimate Judger

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Hickman-era Beyonders definitely aren't pre-retcon Beyonder level each, imo. Pre-retcon Beyonder, for example, literally WAS the ENTIRE Beyond realm -- without him it wasn't even a place. As you mentioned: the Beyonders of now do not *embody* the realm in its totality; they just *live* there alongside a host of other civilizations.

Aside from that, I certainly do not believe it would take *three* pre-retcon Beyonders just to defeat LT... I think *a* pre-retcon Beyonder would snap him out of existence casually.


As i said, the beyonders are very a mysterious race.

Marvel havent given us much from them really.

The point here is they are very powerful. Until Now 2nd to TOAA in terms of power atleast.

Can they defeat the monitors? I certainly think they can.


__________________

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 11:13 PM
Josh_Alexander is currently offline Click here to Send Josh_Alexander a Private Message Find more posts by Josh_Alexander Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Josh_Alexander
The Ultimate Judger

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
The Secret Wars Beyonder wasn't born on Earth-616. He's from the beyond realm like all the others.

Also, to give some insights into your questions. The Beyonders were confirmed to reside outside the omniverse.

https://imgur.com/6r1B0Dl

And there are apparently many races/kinds of "omni-beings" like the beyonders who live in the beyond realm. Others include the examiners, the debasers, gardeners (different from ex nihilo's gardeners), the normalizers, the beyond corporation. And lots of others.

https://imgur.com/6OlH5xX

All these races reside outside the omniverse and have different agendas, some want to toy with it (like the beyond corporation), some want to destroy it (like the beyonders, as part of their grand experiment), others want to study it or preserve it, and others' intentions are unknown.

My Conclusion? My interpretation of the beyonders is that they're literally a race of pre-retcon Beyonders. Fact is:

- Pre retcon beyonder's feats are still valid. Even the most recent secret wars handbook (2015) mentions his feats in details.

- Minute bits of beyonders' energies are responsible for cosmic cubes and cube beings (who have multiversal and omniversal feats).

- The entire MU is literally nothing in comparison to their realm (The original beyonder saw it as microscopic; kubik/kosmos saw MU dwindle into insignificance; and recently they were confirmed to reside outside the omniverse)

- Owen using their power put an omniverse in a box.

- three of them killed all of the MU's cosmic abstracts.

I mean, you could hang on to that single PIS/CIS moment (which was the most stupid scene i have ever seen in a comic btw), but you can't escape the bigger picture in which they were portrayed to be as being supremely powerful throughout their appearances.


Yeah i agree with pretty much everything. And as i said, the levels of power within these variates.

You got something wrong though, Beyonders reside outside the Multiverse in the beyond realm, not outside the Omniverse.


__________________

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 11:16 PM
Josh_Alexander is currently offline Click here to Send Josh_Alexander a Private Message Find more posts by Josh_Alexander Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Astner
Fundamental Physicist

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Ive read the comics,

No you haven't.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
and theyve never said that The beyonders are like Kryptonite to Cosmic beings.

No, but Tom Brevoort said it, and he's the editor of the comic.


__________________

My visit with Vorador only strengthened my resolve. His power uncontested by mortals, he had fallen to another enemy. Decadence has claimed itself many a great warrior.

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 11:32 PM
Astner is currently offline Click here to Send Astner a Private Message Find more posts by Astner Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zack M
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Of course they can. Just look at the showings i listed and try to come up with anyone or anything who has done what they have.


Has the Beyonders ever killed something on the level of a Primal Monitor?


__________________


Avatar/Sig by One_Angry_Scot!

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 11:52 PM
Zack M is currently offline Click here to Send Zack M a Private Message Find more posts by Zack M Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Stoic
Avenger

Gender: Male
Location: United States, New Jersey

Uhm... Are the Monitors cosmic beings?


__________________

Old Post Oct 2nd, 2017 11:53 PM
Stoic is currently offline Click here to Send Stoic a Private Message Find more posts by Stoic Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
operator616
Senior Member

Gender:
Location: BTAS

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

You got something wrong though, Beyonders reside outside the Multiverse in the beyond realm, not outside the Omniverse.


Jason (CEO of cortex) worked with WESPE (a terrorist organization) to built a dimensional portal. When they looked through the portal, they looked beyond the omniverse and into the beyond realm. Meaning the beyond realm is outside the omniverse. It's right there in the scan i posted.

https://imgur.com/6r1B0Dl

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
Has the Beyonders ever killed something on the level of a Primal Monitor?


Well, The child unit beyonder was more powerful than the entire hierarchy, significantly so.

The 2015 secret wars handbook mentions how the secret wars beyonder was merely a child unit (as revealed in time runs out):

https://imgur.com/rslsQ1n

And despite confirming that he's a child unit, the handbook goes on to actually mention how the entire cosmic hierarchy couldn't stop him:

https://imgur.com/aiggNWr

*including the living tribunal.

3 beyonders stomped the hierarchy as well.

Notice that, at the level of beyonders, how Eternity (the embodiment of all there is) literally shrinks into nothingness in the beyond realm.

https://imgur.com/36bxBA1

No wonder why Owen, with their power, was able to keep the entire omniverse in a box...

https://imgur.com/ZT0xDcs

The original beyond also saw the multiverse as microscopic. And it is for those reasons, as well as a few others which i have mentioned before, why i think beyonders are well above the monitors. Although primal monitor doesn't exactly qualify as a monitor.

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 12:37 AM
operator616 is currently offline Click here to Send operator616 a Private Message Find more posts by operator616 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Josh_Alexander
The Ultimate Judger

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner
No you haven't.


No, but Tom Brevoort said it, and he's the editor of the comic.


Me knowing about comics is the reason why IT WAS NEVER STATED that Beyonders were like Kryptonite to Cosmic beings.

Would you mind giving a link. Would like to check his actual words.


__________________

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 12:59 AM
Josh_Alexander is currently offline Click here to Send Josh_Alexander a Private Message Find more posts by Josh_Alexander Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Josh_Alexander
The Ultimate Judger

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Jason (CEO of cortex) worked with WESPE (a terrorist organization) to built a dimensional portal. When they looked through the portal, they looked beyond the omniverse and into the beyond realm. Meaning the beyond realm is outside the omniverse. It's right there in the scan i posted.

https://imgur.com/6r1B0Dl




Hmmm, makes no sense at all. Will have to research on that.

The Beyonders attacked the Marvel Multiverse not the Omniverse.

They are from outside the Multiverse. Outside the Marvel Multiverse but exist within the Omniverse.

Let me go find you some evidence.


__________________

Last edited by Josh_Alexander on Oct 3rd, 2017 at 01:02 AM

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 01:00 AM
Josh_Alexander is currently offline Click here to Send Josh_Alexander a Private Message Find more posts by Josh_Alexander Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Josh_Alexander
The Ultimate Judger

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Jason (CEO of cortex) worked with WESPE (a terrorist organization) to built a dimensional portal. When they looked through the portal, they looked beyond the omniverse and into the beyond realm. Meaning the beyond realm is outside the omniverse. It's right there in the scan i posted.

https://imgur.com/6r1B0Dl




http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Beyonders

They are categorized as from outside the multiverse.

Omniverse refers to Marvels Multiverse, Beyonders Realm, and all the other Multiverses.


__________________

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 01:15 AM
Josh_Alexander is currently offline Click here to Send Josh_Alexander a Private Message Find more posts by Josh_Alexander Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheHulkster
Senior Member

Gender:
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner
No you haven't.


No, but Tom Brevoort said it, and he's the editor of the comic.


He didn't actually say that. He used it as an analogy to show that just because character A fairs worse than character B against something, it doesn't mean that B is more powerful than A.

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 01:32 AM
TheHulkster is currently offline Click here to Send TheHulkster a Private Message Find more posts by TheHulkster Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Gender: Male
Location: Ohio

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheHulkster
He didn't actually say that. He used it as an analogy to show that just because character A fairs worse than character B against something, it doesn't mean that B is more powerful than A.
thumb up


__________________

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 01:36 AM
quanchi112 is currently offline Click here to Send quanchi112 a Private Message Find more posts by quanchi112 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
SquallX
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: miami/fl.

It took a literal concept to kill Mandrakk, no Beyonders have ever showned said type of power.

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 04:14 AM
SquallX is currently offline Click here to Send SquallX a Private Message Find more posts by SquallX Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Gender: Male
Location: Ohio

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SquallX
It took a literal concept to kill Mandrakk, no Beyonders have ever showned said type of power.
A plot device which has been going on for years. A gl staked the guy. smile


__________________

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 04:35 AM
quanchi112 is currently offline Click here to Send quanchi112 a Private Message Find more posts by quanchi112 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Rage.Of.Olympus
RIP GUY222

Gender: Male
Location: Asgard

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner
No it's not assumed. It's explicitly explained by the editor of the comic to be the case. And I'd rather trust the explanation of someone who was involved in the writing process over the theories by someone who've not even not read the comic.

By the way, it's more likely that the Beyonders had a weakness for Abyss, Ex Nihilo, and Starbrand's powersóconsidering they were tied to the Superflowórather than the Abstracts being weak to the Beyonders.


He didn't specifically state that, he gave his opinion on a potential explanation and as we've seen before, Breevort's word is pretty irrelevant. I don't think it has any place aside from supplementary evidence.


__________________


Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 05:35 AM
Rage.Of.Olympus is currently offline Click here to Send Rage.Of.Olympus a Private Message Find more posts by Rage.Of.Olympus Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
celeyhyga17
Unworthy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Old Asgard

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
A plot device which has been going on for years. A gl staked the guy. smile

Pretty sure he weakened by the solar attack (hv) from the supermen of the multiverse at that point. Him being a vampire and all...


__________________

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 03:25 PM
celeyhyga17 is currently offline Click here to Send celeyhyga17 a Private Message Find more posts by celeyhyga17 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
quanchi112
Supreme Snoke

Gender: Male
Location: Ohio

quote: (post)
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Pretty sure he weakened by the solar attack (hv) from the supermen of the multiverse at that point. Him being a vampire and all...
So heralds can hurt him which is exactly my point.


__________________

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 05:32 PM
quanchi112 is currently offline Click here to Send quanchi112 a Private Message Find more posts by quanchi112 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Rage.Of.Olympus
RIP GUY222

Gender: Male
Location: Asgard

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SquallX
It took a literal concept to kill Mandrakk, no Beyonders have ever showned said type of power.


That doesn't in itself mean anything in a thread. Just saying It's been an ongoing concept in the Thor comics how the Asgardians are at their core stories and can never truly die. Even their power can be reflected by this:

Loki as the new God of Stories saved the stories/life essence of the Nine Worlds from Secret Wars II easily (Despite everything else in the Multiverse aside from the Surfer collapsing) and was the omnipresent narrator of the comic. He even scared away Those Who Sit Above in Shadow with the chance that the story he could tell would've erased them (Who were heavily implied to be rogue Beyonder's actually IIRC). Based on Agent of Asgard #16 and #17, he's more like Mxy, manipulating the entire comic and all players in it with his reality warping, but I don't know that it should be applied literally in a vs. thread otherwise he'd technically beat even Odin or Galactus level beings easily.


__________________


Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Oct 3rd, 2017 at 07:29 PM

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 07:19 PM
Rage.Of.Olympus is currently offline Click here to Send Rage.Of.Olympus a Private Message Find more posts by Rage.Of.Olympus Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zack M
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Jason (CEO of cortex) worked with WESPE (a terrorist organization) to built a dimensional portal. When they looked through the portal, they looked beyond the omniverse and into the beyond realm. Meaning the beyond realm is outside the omniverse. It's right there in the scan i posted.

https://imgur.com/6r1B0Dl



Well, The child unit beyonder was more powerful than the entire hierarchy, significantly so.

The 2015 secret wars handbook mentions how the secret wars beyonder was merely a child unit (as revealed in time runs out):

https://imgur.com/rslsQ1n

And despite confirming that he's a child unit, the handbook goes on to actually mention how the entire cosmic hierarchy couldn't stop him:

https://imgur.com/aiggNWr

*including the living tribunal.

3 beyonders stomped the hierarchy as well.

Notice that, at the level of beyonders, how Eternity (the embodiment of all there is) literally shrinks into nothingness in the beyond realm.

https://imgur.com/36bxBA1

No wonder why Owen, with their power, was able to keep the entire omniverse in a box...

https://imgur.com/ZT0xDcs

The original beyond also saw the multiverse as microscopic. And it is for those reasons, as well as a few others which i have mentioned before, why i think beyonders are well above the monitors. Although primal monitor doesn't exactly qualify as a monitor.


Wasn't that the same for the Primal Monitor? The multiverse was a germ in comparison.


__________________


Avatar/Sig by One_Angry_Scot!

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2017 09:26 PM
Zack M is currently offline Click here to Send Zack M a Private Message Find more posts by Zack M Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 02:04 AM.
Pages (13): « First ... « 6 7 [8] 9 10 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » The Monitor race v.s. the Beyonder race

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.