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Confederate/Nazi flag vs Anthem Kneeling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by vansonbee
He wasn't born in the US right? Only US born Americans take everything for granted here.


Did you see what he did? He bolted from the interview to pay respect


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 04:58 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Pretty much.

The Anthem thing was the weirdest one, imo, it's like they believe George Washington wrote it himself and it's been the Anthem since the late 1700's or something.


Saudi Arabia wasn't a thing until 1930. Israel wasn't a thing until 1948.

When it was created/made official isn't an issue. That's the same logic the British use to run down America, claiming we're a baby country compared to their ancient lineage, as if that matters..


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Last edited by cdtm on Sep 27th, 2017 at 01:10 PM

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 01:06 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
An anthem and a flag aren't history. Actions and events and people are history. Maybe there was a time when flags and anthems were used to rouse people into acting for the greater good of humanity. Now they seem to be used by powerful people to goad others into working against their own interests and those of wider humanity in order to those in power.

The people who seem to care the least about what a flag and anthem symbolise are those who invoke it the most.


^ The Scottish get it


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 09:56 PM
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Well then, statues aren't history either. lol. Do you see how that works?

Oh and just to nip any excuses in the butt: no, a statue of a person is not an actual person. Since Jaden said "actions, events, and people are history" I didn't wanna leave anyone room to weasel out.


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Last edited by Surtur on Sep 27th, 2017 at 10:05 PM

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 10:00 PM
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Afro Cheese
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I believe that the reason that national anthems/flags/etc exist is that symbolism matters and serves as a useful tool for conveying ideas.... national pride and/or identity being one of them.

If symbolism didn't matter, then the Nazi flag/Confederate flag/etc would offend nobody.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 10:10 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I believe that the reason that national anthems/flags/etc exist is that symbolism matters and serves as a useful tool for conveying ideas.... national pride and/or identity being one of them.

If symbolism didn't matter, then the Nazi flag/Confederate flag/etc would offend nobody.


Lol wait, that is true. If this stuff is "just a flag" and history is events and people, then the swastika shouldn't be controversial, correct?

You see this is the problem I think people who go to these extremes on both sides fall prey to: they never think about what happens if you take their own beliefs to their logical extreme.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 10:12 PM
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That's exactly why I said in the beginning of this thread that I don't put the rebel flag in the same category as the Nazi flag. Because of what each flag likely symbolizes for the person flying it. Many southerners fly the rebel flag out of some sort of "southern pride." Whereas anyone who flies the Nazi flag is almost certainly either some sort of neo-Nazi or someone who is using that incendiary symbol on purpose to get a rise out of people.

I do think the Confederate flag is culturally insensitive... but the flag of the 3rd Reich is in its own category of symbolic evil IMO. The sickle and star of communism is also IMO much more symbolically evil than the rebel flag is, because of the ideology it promotes. But for whatever reason, we don't as a society treat it with the sort of derision it deserves the way we do with the swastika.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 10:34 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Well then, statues aren't history either. lol. Do you see how that works?

Oh and just to nip any excuses in the butt: no, a statue of a person is not an actual person. Since Jaden said "actions, events, and people are history" I didn't wanna leave anyone room to weasel out.


You seem confused again, or you're purposefully being a retard. Not 100% sure either way; at this point, don't care.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 10:51 PM
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Why is Black Power, Black Pride, ok? Why is ok for Asians to wear shirts that say Asian Pride. Or gay people to have celebrations called "gay pride"

But if a white person is proud of being white, he's a white supremacists?


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 10:52 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
You seem confused again, or you're purposefully being a retard. Not 100% sure either way; at this point, don't care.


If we're going with "flags and anthems aren't history" well, statues aren't history either. The name of a place sue as hell wouldn't be history. Why is that different?


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 10:53 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sable
Why is Black Power, Black Pride, ok? Why is ok for Asians to wear shirts that say Asian Pride. Or gay people to have celebrations called "gay pride"

But if a white person is proud of being white, he's a white supremacists?


You see it's cuz slavery existed here. Oh we're pretty much the only country to specifically fight a war to stop slavery, and slavery of course still *actually exists* in some parts of the world(some muslim countries in fact), but you and I need to continue to pay penance for the actions of people 150 years ago. Penance from the people who had nothing to do with it to the people who didn't suffer the original injustice. Makes sense, how do you like living in Bizarro world?


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 10:55 PM
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I don't think it's just cause of slavery, but more cause white people did a sort of bang-up job conquering and colonizing the world over the last 500 years. So "white pride/white power" is associated largely with Nazis and KKK members. And that's largely a true assumption.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:02 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
You see it's cuz slavery existed here. Oh we're pretty much the only country to specifically fight a war to stop slavery, and slavery of course still *actually exists* in some parts of the world(some muslim countries in fact), but you and I need to continue to pay penance for the actions of people 150 years ago. Penance from the people who had nothing to do with it to the people who didn't suffer the original injustice. Makes sense, how do you like living in Bizarro world?


Spain hunted down and killed more people and natives here in America and Mexico then the "white devils." As did England, but I don't see anyone lambasting them.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:06 PM
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Spain and England are both white countries. Spain less than England, but that's only cause of the Moors. Same with Italians. But yea... bad example?

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:13 PM
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Spain has never been considered the bad guy though. They are in the "latin" category, so safe from the "white devils" distain. If Trump said, Spain isnt allowed in America cause of their past, people would literally be shitting themselves saying "RACISM!!"


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:15 PM
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I disagree... they are (historically) considered the bad guy by many. People even want to get rid of Columbus day.

But the bottom line is that white power/pride is associated with a nasty history hence white people are too guilty to indulge. This is the same exact logic as saying that history matters and so does symbolism. You don't just get to wipe the slate clean and declare something like that devoid of any historical connotations when it is so deeply ingrained in the modern psyche.

Last edited by Afro Cheese on Sep 27th, 2017 at 11:19 PM

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:16 PM
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You disagree on the first part, but not the second, or both?


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:17 PM
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Oh you edited that in while I was responding. Uh... I dunno if "racism" would be the cry, but people would definitely be pissed. As they should be, as that would be an idiotic policy on his part.

But let's say he said Jews instead of Spaniards... people would cry racism. Even if the Jews were white. So that honestly proves nothing even if it's true.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:21 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sable
Why is Black Power, Black Pride, ok? Why is ok for Asians to wear shirts that say Asian Pride. Or gay people to have celebrations called "gay pride"

But if a white person is proud of being white, he's a white supremacists?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
You see it's cuz slavery existed here. Oh we're pretty much the only country to specifically fight a war to stop slavery, and slavery of course still *actually exists* in some parts of the world(some muslim countries in fact), but you and I need to continue to pay penance for the actions of people 150 years ago. Penance from the people who had nothing to do with it to the people who didn't suffer the original injustice. Makes sense, how do you like living in Bizarro world?


^ laughing


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:26 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
^ laughing
not an argument robbo


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2017 11:51 PM
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