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DBS tier list?
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Beerus can also nullify energy and seal people into swords. smile

And yes, while Skyfathers do have more versatility, they also tend to have (far) less raw power than the likes of Beerus. Furthermore, Skyfathers almost never bring such a breadth of versatility to bear in a fight. This is the same reason why I don't even have Galactus on par with Beerus.


I agree.


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2017 10:59 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bbrem123
What make them different though? We have obvious feats like erasing universes in an instant. Yet some say that is only Meta/Street...


Zeno would enter Universal level power.

He has the ability to erase Universes. So he is automatically at that level answering your question.


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2017 11:01 PM
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carver9
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Base Goku, high trans
Beerus Abstract
Whis Abstract
Zeno high cosmic


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:08 AM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Zeno would enter Universal level power.

He has the ability to erase Universes. So he is automatically at that level answering your question.


laughing out loud laughing out loud

Universal? Hilarious. Jiren was shaking infinity with just a percentage of his power and Zeno is far more powerful than him. Just stop. Please.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:10 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
laughing out loud laughing out loud

Universal? Hilarious. Jiren was shaking infinity with just a percentage of his power and Zeno is far more powerful than him. Just stop. Please.


My bad. I would put Zeno at a Multiversal scale.


Yeah he has control over the DB Universes which arguably makes up the DB Multiverse so yeah.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:54 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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The main issue with DB is that their characters although seen powerful in some areas don't match up Marvel's or DC characters.

For instance. Although i put Zeno on a Multiversal Scale he would never match beings like the Living Tribunal or Michael and Lucifer who also fall under this category.

Whis too. Although he is on a Celestial level or a Universal Level even. I would never put him in par with Celestial beings of Marvel or DC.

Simply because this characters haven't really showed much.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:56 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Zen-Oh in the anime erased Cosmic Zamasu, who had embodied time and space throughout the entire Trunks timeline, and was even beginning to affect the alternate present timeline. Zen-Oh erased him and all the universes in the timeline, along with presumably his realm that exists on a higher plane of existence than the 12 universes.

In the manga, it's even better, as Zen-Oh erases hundreds of Merged Zamasu's (each one being so much more powerful than regular SSJB Goku that, when suppressed, they feel as if Goku isn't even moving,) and the entire timeline, to the extent that the time ring is erased (implying that absolutely everything was indeed destroyed). I see no reason why this wouldn't include the world of void, Zen-Oh's realm, alternate dimensions, etc. Zen-Oh does all this instantly and effortlessly.

Verdict: I'm willing to bet Zen-Oh has infinite 3D erasure capabilities. Hell, even someone as comparatively weak as Jiren has power that can reach infinity according to both Android 18 and Elder Kai, and can block a far more powerful SSJG Goku's punches with a finger, whilst suppressed heavily. Hell, it's entirely possible that Zen-Oh even has limitless, or at least nigh-limitless, 4D destructive capability as well.

I don't know who I'd put him on the level of in Marvel or DC. Dimensional tiering doesn't tend to really work with comics. That said, I think Zen-Oh is definitely above universal (not Multiversal) abstracts like Eternity and Infinity, but below the Infinity Gauntlet. I can be convinced otherwise, though.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 03:21 AM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Zen-Oh in the anime erased Cosmic Zamasu, who had embodied time and space throughout the entire Trunks timeline, and was even beginning to affect the alternate present timeline. Zen-Oh erased him and all the universes in the timeline, along with presumably his realm that exists on a higher plane of existence than the 12 universes.

In the manga, it's even better, as Zen-Oh erases hundreds of Merged Zamasu's (each one being so much more powerful than regular SSJB Goku that, when suppressed, they feel as if Goku isn't even moving,) and the entire timeline, to the extent that the time ring is erased (implying that absolutely everything was indeed destroyed). I see no reason why this wouldn't include the world of void, Zen-Oh's realm, alternate dimensions, etc. Zen-Oh does all this instantly and effortlessly.

Verdict: I'm willing to bet Zen-Oh has infinite 3D erasure capabilities. Hell, even someone as comparatively weak as Jiren has power that can reach infinity according to both Android 18 and Elder Kai, and can block a far more powerful SSJG Goku's punches with a finger, whilst suppressed heavily. Hell, it's entirely possible that Zen-Oh even has limitless, or at least nigh-limitless, 4D destructive capability as well.

I don't know who I'd put him on the level of in Marvel or DC. Dimensional tiering doesn't tend to really work with comics. That said, I think Zen-Oh is definitely above universal (not Multiversal) abstracts like Eternity and Infinity, but below the Infinity Gauntlet. I can be convinced otherwise, though.


I put Zen on a Multiversal Scale because of his erasure powers. He erases universes which automatically puts him above Universal Powers.

But when we look at Zen....That's all he got...

He doesn't have time manipulation, or energy manipulation, or reality warping, or even matter manipulation...All he does is erasing...

Also his mental state is FRAGILE. Man even Goku manages to fool the Omni King!!!

Even Charles Xavier would mentally manipulate him!!!

The Infinity Gaunlet is categorized at a Universal power level. But if we face Omni King against a being with the Infinity Gaunlet...Am willing to say Zen loses badly.

So it's like...Zen is at a Multiversal level but at the same time he loses to Universal beings and even Meta Level beings like Xavier.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 03:57 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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We don't know that yet.

I'd argue that despite Zamasu's knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls in the manga, he absolutely knows he can't let Zen-Oh catch wind of his existence, lest he be erased. Keep in mind the SDB's are capable of fulfilling any wish.

Hell, Beerus and Champa have full knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls and the extent of their powers, yet they firmly believe no power in existence is capable of even touching Omni-King. I doubt a mind trick from Xavier is going to harm Zen-Oh if the Super Dragon Balls can't.


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"I was lying! See? There's an Omniverse in the box. And that Omniverse died. But alot of the lives in it carried onto the new one. New broom--same handle."

Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 12:52 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
We don't know that yet.

I'd argue that despite Zamasu's knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls in the manga, he absolutely knows he can't let Zen-Oh catch wind of his existence, lest he be erased. Keep in mind the SDB's are capable of fulfilling any wish.

Hell, Beerus and Champa have full knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls and the extent of their powers, yet they firmly believe no power in existence is capable of even touching Omni-King. I doubt a mind trick from Xavier is going to harm Zen-Oh if the Super Dragon Balls can't.


Yeah. Well i don't know if Zamasu was even aware of the Omni Kings existance. New God's like him seem to have little to no knowledge on such a things.

Okay this is what i've noticed:

In the tournament that is being held, have you noticed that Zen is always amazed by the powers being unleashed by the participants? He is always like, "OHHH WHAT IS THAT!!???". He is always being amazed and awe. It's obvious he has never witness such a powers.

Now logically if he has never witness such a powers that means he himself has never performed them...So in that aspect Omni King isn't really Omnipotent...nor a Godly like being..

Sure he erases this like nothing but i doubt he could do anything else.

Well i have never seen mind manipulation to the level of Charles Xavier in DB.. And Omni King is easily manipulated so.. I think Charles could pull out the trick.


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Old Post Oct 30th, 2017 02:51 PM
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Nevan
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Zamasu knew about Zen'o, that's why he shit his pants when he saw him in the manga.

Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 05:37 PM
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carver9
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Xavier at best is a planetary manipulator. Babidi showed that he was a planetary mind rapist as well and this was nothing to the Z fighters and this is before DBS...at their weakest level. Xavier isn't doing anything to Zeno, let alone Kid Trunks, etc...


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 07:02 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The main issue with DB is that their characters although seen powerful in some areas don't match up Marvel's or DC characters.

For instance. Although i put Zeno on a Multiversal Scale he would never match beings like the Living Tribunal or Michael and Lucifer who also fall under this category.

Whis too. Although he is on a Celestial level or a Universal Level even. I would never put him in par with Celestial beings of Marvel or DC.

Simply because this characters haven't really showed much.


What areas are they not powerful in? Question, I can't remember the short guy name in the Namek saga that had the power to stop time by holding his breath. Do you think his abilities would work on Super Saiyan Goku?

Beerus is Universal (he would destroy a Celestial, erase them with a thought) and Whis is FAR above him. You're right, Whis isn't Universal, he is far more than that.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 07:05 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nevan
Zamasu knew about Zen'o, that's why he shit his pants when he saw him in the manga.


He didn't even know about the Super Dragon Balls until he went to Zuno if you don't remember.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Xavier at best is a planetary manipulator. Babidi showed that he was a planetary mind rapist as well and this was nothing to the Z fighters and this is before DBS...at their weakest level. Xavier isn't doing anything to Zeno, let alone Kid Trunks, etc...


Naah, Xavier is a better mind manipulator. Xavier even manage to read WBH's mind. Which is basically a feat considered impossible.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 08:40 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
What areas are they not powerful in? Question, I can't remember the short guy name in the Namek saga that had the power to stop time by holding his breath. Do you think his abilities would work on Super Saiyan Goku?

Beerus is Universal (he would destroy a Celestial, erase them with a thought) and Whis is FAR above him. You're right, Whis isn't Universal, he is far more than that.


Hahahaha.

Zeno would have no chance against beings like the Living Tribunal or M&L. Zeno can erase things, but that's everything he's got. He has shown no level of time manipulation or energy mantipulation. He hasn't even shown to be a Reality Warper.

Bills hasn't been shown to erase things with his mind.

Whis isn't in par with Eternity or the Celestials.

Whis can't even alter time! He can only travel a few minutes in time. Eternity and all the other Celestial beings aren't limited by these.

I would never place Whis in par of Eternity or the Spectre.

DB focuses on raw power. But they lack in other abilities like Reality Warping, Time manipulation, etc.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 08:44 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He didn't even know about the Super Dragon Balls until he went to Zuno if you don't remember.



Naah, Xavier is a better mind manipulator. Xavier even manage to read WBH's mind. Which is basically a feat considered impossible.


He couldn't read his mind you mean. It was a struggle and he was only getting images.

(please log in to view the image)

Xavier can't do anything to than a fighters, let alone Zeno.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 09:42 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Hahahaha.

Zeno would have no chance against beings like the Living Tribunal or M&L. Zeno can erase things, but that's everything he's got. He has shown no level of time manipulation or energy mantipulation. He hasn't even shown to be a Reality Warper.

Bills hasn't been shown to erase things with his mind.

Whis isn't in par with Eternity or the Celestials.

Whis can't even alter time! He can only travel a few minutes in time. Eternity and all the other Celestial beings aren't limited by these.

I would never place Whis in par of Eternity or the Spectre.

DB focuses on raw power. But they lack in other abilities like Reality Warping, Time manipulation, etc.


Lol... he doesn't need to show it since it will not work. Time stopping doesn't even work on Jiren, why do you think it will work on Zeno? Let's be real here.

Beerus has manipulated energy. The guy cancelled out a universe destroying blast. Are you implying Beerus is more powerful than Zeno? Zeno attack during the black arc was so powerful that not only did it destroy all of the Universes in Trunks timeline, but, it affected Goku timeline as well. Manipulating time is nothing to him.

I know Whis isn't on par with the Celestials, he is above them. Doom with just a fraction of the Cosmic cube power took out the entire race of Celestials. Whis would rape a cosmic cube user. If Galactus could be some Celestials, Whis would do it much easier.

Lol, Whis can alter time. The Beyonders was unable to manipulate time but they were still able to kill LT. I don't get where you are going with This?

They don't need other abilities since the abilities you named rarely works.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 09:49 PM
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carver9
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Beyonders can't manipulate time...

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qi...4c4df154c54f76d

But they blast Celestials to death...

(please log in to view the image)

Kill Living Tribunal

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...497-41mhf5b.jpg

Along with Eternity, etc...

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...498-5ng9fce.jpg

And they did it with mere blasts, blasts called UNIVERSAL genocide. Zeno erased everyone here.


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Last edited by carver9 on Oct 31st, 2017 at 10:00 PM

Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 09:58 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Lol... he doesn't need to show it since it will not work. Time stopping doesn't even work on Jiren, why do you think it will work on Zeno? Let's be real here.

Beerus has manipulated energy. The guy cancelled out a universe destroying blast. Are you implying Beerus is more powerful than Zeno? Zeno attack during the black arc was so powerful that not only did it destroy all of the Universes in Trunks timeline, but, it affected Goku timeline as well. Manipulating time is nothing to him.

I know Whis isn't on par with the Celestials, he is above them. Doom with just a fraction of the Cosmic cube power took out the entire race of Celestials. Whis would rape a cosmic cube user. If Galactus could be some Celestials, Whis would do it much easier.

Lol, Whis can alter time. The Beyonders was unable to manipulate time but they were still able to kill LT. I don't get where you are going with This?

They don't need other abilities since the abilities you named rarely works.


Zeno hasn't shown anything but Erasing. That's a fact. Furthermore, in the Tournament of Universes Zeno is always amazed at the different abilities and powers being released, as assuming he himself didn't know/never saw such powers. Which would mean that he can't replicate them/ or hasn't tried.

That's not time manipulation. Zamas was manipulating time from Trunks universe. When Zeno erased him, he didn't affect time, he just erased the one affecting time. Furthermore, Zeno didn't even seem to realize he was sent to the past when Goku presented him with his past self. Zeno didn't even seem to realize that Zeno from the past was actually him. It's pretty clear he isn't familiarized with Time Traveling.

You are assuming that the Cosmic Cubes are < than Whis. You seem to forget that the Cosmic Cubes were created by the Beyonders who are at a level FAR ABOVE Zeno.

Whis can't travel on time. He can only travel minutes through time as stated by his person. The Beyonders are limited to their time line doesn't mean that Whis is on the level of the Beyonders.

Well, I see Galactus turning Bills into a kitten. I see the Michael and Lucifer creating a realm full of toys to imprison Zeno.

DB hasn't shown any other abilities but raw power. Which gives them a HUGE disadvantage against their DC/MARVEL counterparts.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 10:05 PM
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Josh_Alexander
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
He couldn't read his mind you mean. It was a struggle and he was only getting images.

(please log in to view the image)

Xavier can't do anything to than a fighters, let alone Zeno.


You are assuming Zeno's mind is in par with WBH's. Which isn't the case.

Zeno is very immature. Even Goku manages to manipulate him. It shouldn't be hard for Xavier to do it.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2017 10:08 PM
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